Alex: 0:37

Hello and welcome to the Working It Out podcast. Andy, thank you very much for joining us today.

Andy: 0:43

Thank you for having me, Alex. Thank you for inviting me on.

Alex: 0:46

No worries at all. So as you know, with all of our podcasts working out podcasts, what we do first is welcome you into our community. So welcome. And then what we do is ask each of our members to induct one item into our working it out locker. So this locker has got so many different items. If you listen to previous podcasts, I always give the one from the previous episode. So Hayley's, which is coming out soon, we'll have her item in which is our HRT patch, which means we've got a very good diverse mix of things in this, locker so it doesn't have to be very sports specific, but what one item would you like to induct into our locker?

Andy: 1:22

Yeah. Well, firstly, thank you for having me on after Hayley. That's not the greatest start because I know how educated Hayley is and how comfortable she is in many of these podcasts and blogs and everything. But so I'm going to choose something slightly different. You'll be pleased to know. And something a little bit unusual. It's not necessarily a positive, but I'm going to use something that's still in my garage and that's a set of crutches. So yeah, I'm quite happy to give them and throw them away to be fair. Cause I hope I don't need them again. And I presume you're going to want to know why.

Alex: 1:52

Yeah, well, that's a really interesting one because I think just my first reaction is that a lot of people give items which they will use regularly or that they quite enjoy, but this seems like it's going to be one with a bit of a story behind, so I'm really interested.

Andy: 2:09

Yeah, so I suppose my relationship, my personal relationship with physical activity and sport, has probably two parts as one pre, my crutches and one post my crutches. So I did my cruciate in 2014 playing non league football, which pretty much symbolized the end of me playing football from a competitive point of view and actually moved me into a different space, which is around for health wellbeing still competitive sides and a very competitive person, which will probably come out. Come on to at some point and it moved into running, but until then, my background had been very much football and I suppose partly professional world and then semi professionally as well as other sports at an okay level. I suppose I tried my hand at most things but yeah, those crutches, I actually saw them not long ago in the garage and thought they, I probably keep hold of them because they remind me of a time when I was trying to push as hard as I could and wanted, I suppose, when I was a child to become a professional footballer at the time. But that injury, which meant the end of me playing at a certain level meant that I then moved forwards into a different phase, I suppose, of my relationship with physical activity and sport.

Alex: 3:25

That's amazing. So it sounds like if you're keeping hold of crutches, based on what I could probably tell, it sounds like you may have your own locker of things at home of mementos and if you're playing non league semi pro football, a few trophies knocking about, I can imagine this garage is full of a few bits like that.

Andy: 3:43

I would say I kept them for that reason. It's more that they've been there. I've never got rid of them. And the wife wants me to get rid of them now. So probably you're giving me too much credit in terms of that, because I'm probably not someone, and I've heard a couple of your other podcasts. I'm like, Gary, I think you had a vest that he's had for years. I'm not someone who keeps hold of stuff. I've got a train shirt. I went out through there. I've got a ball behind here, which was donated to me. So we've got a couple of things, which mean quite a lot when we've done pretty, when I've done pretty well, or we've done. I feel like we've achieved something, but no, I'm not someone who really holds on to something. I'm someone who's probably always looking forwards, which probably tells you a little bit about myself. In terms of my career as well, it's always looking, okay, how do we move forwards in our organisation? But from a physical activity point of view, I've also done that. So yeah, not by design, but I've still got those crutches but they do really symbolize really a time. And it also reminded me I had 12 months where I couldn't do any physical activity. So it reminded me how lucky I was or am and how I know now, especially others aren't that lucky. Whether that is because of different environments, different conditions, long term health conditions, whatever actually is. Not everyone has. Is as fortunate as I suppose I have been to be able to be physical active from a child all the way through to the age that I am now.

Alex: 5:02

12 months. Well, we'll definitely pick up on that in a minute. I think the part which I want to, whilst we're still thinking about items and lockers, you mentioned you had a signed ball. Whilst I was doing my, Digging into you like I do with all of my guests. This is probably the best part of the role is trying to find out on on Twitter, go through to back to 2010, etc. to see what I can find. It seems like you had quite a bit of success as a coach at Wollstanton, if I pronounce that correctly, Wollstanton, Wollstanton. It seems like you're pretty successful as a coach. I've seen that you've also completed a 50k ultra. So you beat my best by 18 miles, which I find, I thought mine was all right, but that's 50k. Wow. So yeah. And then and then you played football. So was your signed ball related to your time, a bit of success at your club?

Andy: 5:54

No, it isn't. The sideboard was actually from when, funnily enough, I was working at the Football Association and they donated through the staff that works from when I moved on to this job that I've got now. But I've got a space from a football point of view. I was fortunate to win the FA Vase with Nantwich Town. We had a brilliant group of players at the time back in 2006. So yeah, I've got a shirt that's framed that, and that's something that is really important to me. And it should of been the first game at Wembley but unfortunately Wembley wasn't ready in time, so it ended being so it always has that slight tinge. But yeah, no, I I've always been involved in competitive sport, I suppose. And when I left football clubs because I was working at Burton Albion and Aston Villa after I'd left that environment, I was able to go back into coaching and just coach the grassroots club. And the reason for that was as much social as it wasn't the level. It was the social side, which I think is a huge part of sport. And it got me back involved and around friends and that changing room environment and everything else that I wanted to be part of. And so, yeah, I did that for three years and we had a good group of players for the level that it was and fortunately won a number of different things. So yeah, that's always been part of me has been involved in that team environment. And I suppose that's the challenges. You get a little bit older. Sometimes you step out of the team environment. But how do you still remain connected with people? And that's where I believe sport and physical activity has a huge role in people's well being as well.

Alex: 7:25

We've already in the first seven minutes, gone a bit on a bit of a rollercoaster of emotions when it comes to physical activity, talking about crutches and timeout all the way to

7:36

winning the FA Vase, everything

Alex: 7:37

in between. So, which leads us perfectly on to the next question and might make it a bit hard. So when it comes to sport and physical activity for you, what one emotion would you use to describe your relationship with it?

Andy: 7:51

Good question.

Alex: 7:52

What's that gut feeling that when we say let's do sport, what's the first feeling?

Andy: 7:57

I think for me, it's different things at different times and depending what I'm doing. And, but I think the overarching thing will be satisfaction that whatever I am going into from a physical activity perspective, whether it's playing a football match or whether that's doing an ultra marathon or whether it's just going for a run with my dog from different parts of the end of it, I feel really, really at peace and satisfied with what I've been able to do and getting out and doing that, you get that piece of satisfaction. But there's another one will be, I'm really grateful that I get the opportunity to be physically active. I'm very grateful that I can just go out onto the road, go out into some fields and do some running or go and go and play football. And I suppose the job that I've done in the last couple of years has really opened my eyes that not everyone is that fortunate. So, yeah, I think satisfaction would be one that probably summarizes where I have always felt in terms of being physically active and whatever form that's been.

Alex: 8:53

And you said you were competitive and then, so I think for me as a very competitive person, I've always said, I'm a jack of all trades, master of none, but in my head, I'm the best at everything, but I just, my body can't do it. is there any real high points for you or low points that come first to mind?

Andy: 9:18

Yeah, I suppose I'll go back to those crutches actually getting fit beyond being injured for a considerable amount of time. I suppose I'm pretty proud of being able to do that. I'm quite satisfied where I'm at now that it's six, seven, I don't know how long that was, how many years ago was it? Eight years ago, whatever it is. Since I was able to start running again and actually my fitness levels and everything else is pretty good at the moment. Which is quite satisfying to get to that point. Yeah, the other high moments would always be again, for me, we'll be back to bits of my football from when I was playing. But the bits that you remember from that is not necessarily the match or definitely no goals for me, but it would be the group of people that I was with. They are the memories that you have where do you look back and I feel and even as a child, I know for now is the bits that you look back is when you've been playing with your friends when you've made those social connections. They are the high moments for me. Even now. Yes, I'm very competitive. I'm competitive against myself, not against necessarily others. So I set my times and nothing else and I probably need to be kinder to myself over time, especially as I'm going to get slower. So I would definitely have to be kinder to myself, but I like to push forward and set targets, whatever it is to try and achieve something. So I get that real satisfaction. What I don't really like is just meandering along and probably nervous where I am, I suppose, when in my job role as well.

Alex: 10:54

I think for me, I'm quite similar. A lot of what you spoke about is when you, you're coaching and you do that for the social and the satisfaction of participating with people. When I'm not in a team sport or do even if it's five aside on a Monday night with my mates if I'm not doing that I'm a completely different person and it happens over time until my wife goes, you need to do something with your mates just get out and just, just go, just go play some golf, go play some football with your mates. I had a lot of people telling me that I would love marathon training. I would love the, the conquering that distance, getting out, feeling like you're feeling really fit, and you'll get the bug. And I did the marathon, this London one, and I did not get the bug at all. I Couldn't think of anything worse after doing the marathon than going out running by myself for three and a half hours on a Sunday morning in the rain. It just, no amount of effort allowed me to switch off and enjoy that process. So is it the same for you? Cause you said you've done a 50k Ultra as well. So yeah, in that training as well, or is that competitiveness get you through?

Andy: 12:06

Yeah, I think I struggle with the longer times really. And so I think I'm doing the Great North Run in September. I did a cross country run last night, but they're different timelines, lengths, you got to be o ut for and that's probably why I haven't got too much into my cycling. I've got a bike and I'll get into my cycling, I'll do triathlons, but if you've got a bike, you need to do three, four hours. And part of that is a challenge. I've got an eight year old daughter, if nothing else. And I am very, very good at when I finish something, deciding to fill my time with something else. So I do have to make sure I'm very considered to my family as well, and I could probably be a lot more considered because when I stopped playing football, I think my wife, okay, I'll see more of him and I feel it was something else. And I think that's probably because as a child, I was growing up, I got, I had those habits. I had those routines and habits are absolutely vital. And since anytime, anything, if you can, if something becomes a habit, easily becomes habits, very difficult to get out, get out of, I suppose that's inactivity. If you're inactive, that's a habit. So changing something off that is not very easy if it's ingrained. And I suppose in me, I've been used to that competitive side and I sometimes worry that I would struggle not doing that. You see that with a lot of not on my level, but professional sports people when they've done something for so long is actually what else do they then become, whether it's addicted to or becomes a habit can be challenging as well. So I suppose I'm always trying to fill it with something that I feel is positive and that's why I probably have done.

Alex: 13:37

Yeah. I completely agree. I think I spent a good. Five years after university training in the gym towards a goal, which I wanted to do healthfully and sustainably of, of build size mass and just eat right. And then I reached my goal a couple of weeks before COVID and then COVID hit and I couldn't do it. It wasn't about like slamming weights, but I was lifting heavier weights, et cetera. And I didn't have access to that. And that affected me so much in terms of, okay, what do I do now? And that is actually where this podcast and everything all came about. Because I was like, right, I need to start something with my friends. And we started doing workouts online and that then turned into them telling me their stories about how much it was helping them. And then now I'm doing a podcast, which I'd never planned to do, but my friends were like, we need to share these stories. They're awesome. So yeah, it went from right. I'm going to, I'm at my lowest. I don't know what I'm going to do to now. I'm talking to amazing people like yourself. So the next part is around your earliest memory of being physically active. Is there a specific memory that comes to mind thinking back into the first time you kicked a ball or ran or with family? Is there something like that comes to mind?

Andy: 14:53

Yeah, again, I was very fortunate. My dad was always very much into sport. I had a brother who was five years older who was very much into sport, into running, into playing football. We just did anything that we possibly could. And, yeah, we didn't have the tablets. We didn't have the computers really as much then. And I was out and about. I suppose my memories is I remember falling off my bike twice and ending up in hospital. So it goes back to the crutches. I do have a few, a few instances of these. But again, with that, I'm just out on my bike. I'm just out playing. I'm in the garden playing football with a friend or I'm on holiday and what am I doing? I'm playing football or running around and I was never really still. My daughter asks me now when she's playing with stuff in the house, what did you play with dad? I said, well, I'd be out. And I'll be running around, I'll be in the garden. And and I think that still does happen. I think sometimes we look at things, oh, kids aren't doing that anymore. Actually if I take my daughter to the playground, she'll run around for hours. They still will do it. I just don't think we realize it or we necessarily create the conditions necessarily to do that. So, yeah, I don't have one, any one standout. Actually I do primary school. We won a football tournament. I went to a school called Woodcroft in, near me and Leek and I remember us winning that tournament in primary school. It must have been year three.

Alex: 16:09

That's a good memory.

Andy: 16:11

Always remember. Oh, it's a thing you've always meant, but why do I remember it because that group of people are still my best friends now. So we're still a close group including a couple of the people that we'd be. And I still remember that. Moments and everything else. I suppose so. Yeah, I just remember being incredibly lucky that I was always doing stuff and it didn't really matter what whether it's cricket in the garden when my dad and my brother or whether it is running around with the next door neighbour. It just was quite a, I was very fortunate to be able to that I suppose

Alex: 16:47

so if you're like myself I have a sporting memory from growing up that I will continuously bring up with my friends. I've luckily enough, like you, I have a group of school friends and there's a few memories that I have. One is scoring a goal on Sky Sports News by accident because it was in the background whilst being, whilst someone was being interviewed on our AstroTurf. But. That's my claim to fame. I've scored a goal in Sky Sports News and I'll keep reminding my friends about it. That was me who scored. I don't, do you still have that kind of camaraderie and do you still talk about these moments with your friends?

Andy: 17:22

Yeah, and a lot of it, we were in a middle school system where we were, so we had a primary school, then into the middle, then into the big end. And from about year six, seven, you start to remember the bits where it was a tennis tournament, so we were on the play, on the field, and you're playing football against one another. And where I am, there's a big rivalry, Stoke v Port Vale. And that they used to play against each other at the time. I'll just add Port Vale used to win the games, obviously. And that was a long time ago now, as you can probably imagine, but I always remember the day of those games and being on the playground and on the field because most people are Stoke City fans. And I was playing for Port Vale at the time, even at that age of 9, 10 or whatever. And people knew I was in their centre of excellence and running around playing football. And I'm probably getting kicked everywhere because I was this little kid who was in pain and was running around. So, yeah, they're the memories with my friends and everything else. And then even through to high school and playing headers and volleys on the playground and everything else. It's still, The bits that you reflect back on when you're with your friends, and I think that's where sport is fantastic.

Alex: 18:27

So am I correct in thinking you're also the chair of Port Vale Foundation?

Andy: 18:34

Yeah, I am. I through my career, I was chief exec at Burton Albion Community Trust and then I went to Aston Villa Foundation as well. So I'm really passionate about the work that Football Club Community Trusts do. Across the 92 and beyond a lot of non league clubs are fantastic community foundations and other sports now. So once my career had gone a certain route and quite a period of time when I'd left the club when I was trying to be a player and new ownership in the football club has got some fantastic owners. Now they asked me if I would join the trustees and then asked to take over as the chair. So, yeah, I'm fortunate to do that now. As a volunteer, yeah. And I'm really proud to do that. We've got a really good team and a foundation, which is really going in the right direction for an area that really needs it as well. And we're really fortunate in this city. Actually, we've got two really good owners in terms of the Coates family through Bet365. And we've got the Shanahan's at Port Vale two football clubs that are embedded in the community that can make a real difference. So yeah, I'm really passionate for the area of Stoke on Trent and what it can achieve. And I think the football clubs player. Key part. So yeah, I'm very, very passionate about that. And it's actually quite nice to. Support of it's making that guys having done the full circle, really.

Alex: 19:50

Yeah, that's why that's what I was just about to bring up. It seems quite nice that you started in the academy and support them as a as a team and that are now Chair. That must feel quite good. And I would probably be putting in more hours in than expected just because of the passion involved in that.

Andy: 20:09

Yeah, to be fair, I don't have this last couple of years with this job. I probably haven't had the time, but hopefully at the end of the phone, that's often what you do. It's a different structure in a football club because the foundation has the football club support as well. So it's got day to day management as well as myself as chair, but yeah, it's been an interesting journey. When I left the club about nine, when I was 19, 20, so that was their full time for three years. And after being there since the age of eight and the football club was in a very different position. Than it is now, and it's had its ups and downs, like all football clubs. I know you had Gary on here, and he would have seen it from Plymouth and others. But, if you get a football club at the heart of the community, embedded in the community, it can make a real difference. So, fingers crossed that will continue to happen. But, unfortunately, football's quite an unstable world as well, with stuff outside people's hands.

Alex: 20:59

Oh, for sure. So we're starting to creep a little bit into, into work bits now, which leads us on perfectly to my next question around just giving people an understanding and an overview of your current role and what you do and just links to physical activity.

Andy: 21:16

Yeah, no problem Alex. So I'm Chief Exec of the Active Partnership National organisation. So there are 43 local local regional Active Partnerships based across the whole of England. So they touch every part of the country. Their role is to help tackle inequalities, deliver against Uniting the Movement strategy and reduce inactivity. They do that in different forms through sport, physical activity and movements. Our role as a national organisation, we have a team of people who are there to connect, strengthen, and enable the 43. And very much as well, I suppose, represents the Active Partnership network. And my role is very much that as well, is be that connection into national organisations, into governments as well, into Sport England but also then show some type of leadership, I suppose, across the 43 when we bring them together which we do a lot. It's a very well connected network that is all wanting to work together. For the benefit of what our mission is, I suppose,

Alex: 22:19

I'm quite interested in your role now, and if you see any differences in terms of previous roles working in foundations, trust within football, does the Active Partnerships network feel any different to the network of community foundation? Because there are the 92 and I've heard and seen that they convene, but I didn't know whether they still had that competitive nature against each other. Or is there any differences between the two types of sectors, worlds within sport?

Andy: 22:52

Yeah, and also before this, I was working at the FA and we had the county FA network. So I had 52, 53 county FA s. The similarities and there's differences, as you would imagine. I think we as a network quite naturally step into the neutral spaces. We don't have that logo as such that we need to be pushing our logo on our role and our purpose and the funding. So yeah, there's a difference in terms of mindset, I suppose, from that and both have their strengths. Around it. I think as a network at the moment, we have real clarity of how and when we come together. As a collective I think we have consistency of funding as well. Alex, to be fair, I think our funding consistently a good proportion or a proportion that comes from Sport England. So we have that in common. Around that. And we have a consistency of that purpose which enables us to come together. So we've got about just about a thousand people in the network and the job is to bring them together to share. So something in Devon may be happening in in the Northeast, well actually let's not start from scratch. How do we share that and learn from what's happened to be efficient and effective? Quite naturally across 72, if it's the football league, Another 20, if it's Premier League. It's more challenging, obviously and those teams change year on year as well in terms of leagues and priorities, ownership but there is a huge amount of learning and sharing that already happens. And that happens on a everything always comes back to relationships. It comes back to relationships on an individual level and organisational level. And if you can. Step in spaces with a common ground. You will find something to work on together. I've been actually talking to the new executive director of Football League Trust very recently, and I know they are trying to how they convene and connect to learn from others about how to do that. So, and we have to look wider than our sector in the way that we work as a national and as a network. There's a lot of good models out there in other sectors and organisations. I think sometimes we often look internally in sports and see how are we doing things. So yeah, I, only thing I will say is I found the tone and approach across our network really refreshing in the last two years. And I think that's just where we are as a network at the moment. I think it's really found its place. It's really, you know, positive as we move forwards. And I think the relationships that we have are as strong as they ever have been nationally as well, which hopefully can then beat the wards on the ground, because ultimately national, we do as much as we can nationally, real magic happens in communities and we can never forget about that.

Alex: 25:30

Amazing. So I found a, well, I think, I believe it was a tweet from yourself. It may have been a LinkedIn post with your favorite quote saying don't find problems, find solutions. So before we dig into trying to find some solutions to see, I hope you see, you've done the link there. I'm proud of that one. And I shouldn't have mentioned, I should have just let the link go. But before we go into that, Is there any reason why you've said that that's your favorite quote? Was this, is there something previous that's happened or is it like the mantra you go by?

Andy: 26:07

I was a bit worried what tweet you were going to say to be honest with you.

Alex: 26:09

Yeah, I'm very PC in my searches.

Andy: 26:12

Yeah, I think I'm quite okay on my social media. It's something I've used. I've used it with a previous colleague as well for a number of years. I think and I've had conversations with people who say, well, unless you know what the problem is, you can't find the solution. And that's true to a point. I think it's a mindset piece for me. I believe that the work that we do is the good news story. It is positive. Yes, there's times when we have challenges. Yes, there's times when we can do better and we have to look at where it can be better. And sometimes it's tough conversations we had, which are not positive. But I think for the vast majority, we should always be looking at how we can improve things, how we can support the conditions for people to be more active. How can we improve processes, organisational approaches, governance, so that we can help people improve and organisations be even better. And what is our end goal? It's a really positive story. And even coming up to the general election beyond, I always feel in my senses, let's find the solutions to what those problems are, such as the NHS waiting list, where we are part of that solution. And it goes a little bit deeper, I suppose, Alex, is actually Even with the team that I work with, my colleagues is actually, if they're coming to me with something, I want them to come with what the potential solution is. It's that empowerment and that distributed leadership. I don't want people just coming with lists of this is the issue. This is the issue. My question often back as well, tell me what we can do about it. So yeah, it's very much a mindset piece. Can't say I always get it right. Myself, because a lot of times when you are seeing the problems but the sooner you can turn to looking at, okay, well, what can we do about this? I find that people will come around you and we'll try and support you in achieving that. So yeah, very much a mindset piece and very much, I suppose, what, how I try and want to lead.

Alex: 28:10

I think it's a great short snappy quote, which is like, he's like, you've just done can tell a lot of stories. So if we are going to find solutions, then the next question is around, if you're going to map out the causes of inactivity, where does your thought process start? So this was an exercise you were going to, you've been tasked with in a room. Where do you, where do you begin?

Andy: 28:38

Wow. It's a big question. It is very relevant. I've been fortunate to sit on a recently national physical activity task force and with like Tim(Hollingsworth) and colleagues and other various different ministers and other organisations. And I always come back to that task force was set up to tackle inactivity. It wasn't set up to get people who are active, more active. So I think we have to just make sure we really define what we mean by inactive and really focus and hone in on inactivity. And also within that, I believe there are different levels of inactivity.

Alex: 29:20

Okay.

Andy: 29:20

So you may have someone who is inactive at the moment because a long term health condition or they may be inactive at the moment at a young age. And it's made me not like what I've said before about it being a habit or it may be people who have been inactive and their mom and dads have been inactive and their mom and dads have been inactive and their, the conditions they live in don't really enable people to be active. Active and that's the real challenges that we have that it will take a huge amount of time. So I think firstly, I think it's, I will give you an answer don't worry, but I think firstly, it's very difficult to give a golden bullet. Here's a solution because I think it is so different in different situations and sessions. That's why I have a firm belief in what Uniting the Movement is trying to achieve it through the place based approach. And more recently, the place based expansion investment. That we're going into communities for a long period of time, hopefully a long period of time with communities, listening to communities and finding solutions with communities. And we need to proportion our investments aligned with that. If there was one thing I would say when we're looking at those who are, have been inactive for a period of time, their families are inactive. And it's really embedded, inactivity is embedded. For me, it's very much about the environment that they're living in. Which needs to be the real focus because I don't believe that child or that adult or that family is going to step into a sporting opportunity as an example straight away. Or they're not going to step into a gym or a leisure facility straight away. Because I think, I believe in confidence and well being gives them that opportunity to then step into that. So we have to increase those levels to start with. So as soon as someone leaves that house, how accessible is it for them to walk to school, as an example? How much, if they're a child, are they being active during the day? Not necessarily in PE and sport, because they may be turned off from that. So it's that whole environment that they're living in which I feel we need to really consider for that family to be able to start to make small steps. And then when you start to make small steps, then actually the conversation may change about opportunities and accessing other services and stuff that is available. Don't

Alex: 31:51

know if I've answered your question, Alex. No, you have, you have indeed. I think I've just been making notes, scribbling away to see how we can dig into this. So it's obviously very relevant for your role, but as I can imagine you're wholly immersed in the place based approach within your organisation. So I can see why that is. Where you would go to and you said around proportioning investment. So I'd like to pick up that in a second. Also, it's quite interesting for me having this part of the conversation, because you can see where different leads and where their brains go to. For example, Gary from Coach Core went straight into education and school setting and yourself has gone into place based. And within place based, you've spoken a lot about families. and the family setting. Is this something which is is something on purpose that you're passionate about or that you feel like is something that we should be focused on more? Or is it just the first thing that's come to your head today?

Andy: 32:55

No, I think it goes back to some work that I did previously when I was working at Aston Villa, actually, and the work that we did in the area of Aston, a fantastic foundation. And there'll be children who are not going to school. And so schools are absolutely vital. By the way, I completely agree with everything Gary said if we can, you're going to hit a good number of Children in school environment. How can we get them active there? Because actually some of the families may be the part of the challenge around that. So completely agree. Because actually, if you look at a local place, it's about all parts of the system, every single community organisation and and the environment. All helping the whole family and everyone be active. So how connected that system is really creates what the success is.

Alex: 33:37

That's what I was wondering is really unfair because I make people try and narrow in on one thing just to help broaden out this map, because I think it's very easy to have the conversation to go, well, there's the COM-B model, let's talk to stay up here in capability opportunity, but digging into that, just finding, I think it helps us understand you as a person, your personal thought process.

Andy: 33:59

Yeah. And I'll go back to, like I said, the world of Villa is actually, you can have conversations with children or teenagers, or even parents. And until you understand what challenges they may have in their family life, and actually the influencers who are close to that group of people we did some brilliant stuff at Villa, which was very much around a whole family approach to engagement. And we felt that engagement was absolutely key, because once you're engaging, you're building relationships, then you can start to influence. And so we have to use a term called generation gains, which is around the elderly and the children. And you start to see a picture of actually a whole family starting to engage with you in some level, which is then. You haven't just got a child that is starting to get active going home and then actually no one else has been active or providing some solutions during that six week holiday, as an example, there's actually everyone recognizing that this is important that we're starting to be active.

Alex: 34:54

That's really interesting. I've never heard of like the whole, whole family approach as the concept. So I think that'd be quite interesting to find out a bit more about.

Andy: 35:04

Yeah, I think I say the place based approach. Some of them may have different lenses, may have focuses. Some might be children, young people might be really, really hyper local. But working with families, I think is really important in my view is actually when we're going in community, doing community consultation, community engagement is actually looking at the whole family. And I suppose the way that we go across the Active Partnership network is very much family across all family from age five up to, I don't know, age 80, 90 for long term health conditions. I'll live long a better programme, which is around a movement to gain momentum in that space. Yeah, if you have a family of four, eight, 12, there's some large families. How do we engage that whole family which then creates a change of culture? Ultimately, I think it's something that I've picked up from work that I've done previously when I've been on the ground. And I suppose when I look at that system and place based working now if you can get a whole family moving in the right direction then, that's fantastic. That starts to change the next generation.

Alex: 36:13

That's amazing. So I think I can see the definite links there with the whole, the whole family approach. And now I can now in my head go through the different stuff that the network are doing to see around, like you said, around aging. So when we're talking about, Proportioning investment. What are you seeing that from a, a family lens or more from a, inequalities lens, when you talk about a place based approach and how we're investing, what'd you mean by being proportionate?

Andy: 36:49

Yeah, I from that, I mean, and I think it's already happening with through Uniting the Movement. And I think it's happening through the place based expansion and place investments. So there's a universal part, but then proportionate investment into those areas that potentially need it the most. So there's a couple of factors. There's obviously data and insight, but then also locally, what was, what is ready in that area to be able to move things forwards at pace. So communities need to be ready and organisations need to be ready to deliver against that. We all know in general election coming up, there isn't more money. There isn't more money available. There's plenty of money in the system, as we would call it. There's plenty of organisational money across different organisations in different areas. But when we're trying to tackle inactivity, we know it costs more money than moving people from being active to remaining active or be more active. The data and statistics are out there. So in my view, we have to be unapologetic. We need to really focus investments, time, resource into those areas that need it the most and that will be areas of inequalities especially health inequalities all the stats and data is out there. I think the key is that we don't do that alone. I think we hear similar language now across the arts, the libraries, there's leisure, obviously, the different sectors, different organisations all looking very similar. And I think if you look at what will happen post general election, I think that will be made, because we need to be able to turn the dial and it does feel like you're fighting an uphill battle, I think and yeah, it's challenging. It takes brave leadership to do that. I certainly feel.

Alex: 38:33

I work to an Active Partnership. About 10 years ago, Active Dorset, well, Dorset County Sport Partnership, as it was then, and I was delivering a programme called Sportivate, go on, back in the day, it was old, old school sport, as I call it, here's a six to eight week intervention, you've got to be able to retain them in activity. And then there's no more funding available for you. So this is just an injection to help you get more people. Personally, I feel Active Partnerships as a whole, how they've adapted every time there's a government shift or a change in strategy nationally from Sport England has been quite incredible. And you saw a lot of Active Partnerships moving into health before Sport England was starting to talk about physical activity and how Sport England now has a health team. It seemed like that Active Partnerships were ahead of the curve of that from the outside looking in. I don't know if that, I don't know if, if you feel that's correct or if that's just because they know their place better and that was how they were linking to other financial resources. What are your thoughts on that?

Andy: 39:42

Yeah, I think if you're connected locally, you should be ahead of the game. But how we then support that nationally is really important. How we're listening, how we're being curious, how we are aligning policy to enable that to happen easier locally is key. But yeah, I would really expect, and this is, I suppose, our role as a national, but also through the links that we all have across our network and wider, we need to make sure when things do land locally or opportunities arise, that they're as efficient and effective as possible. So we need to really listen so the community engagement, listening and feeding that up is absolutely vital. So I would expect it to be that way. I think that's the way it should be. But then how do we react and support is the key. The challenge always is, and you alluded to it a little bit, is if there is top down approach to funding and programmes. Let's be really clear here. programmes is not a dirty word at all. programmes are really important. Interventions are really important. It's how we do it. And also being clear who they're aimed at. We do still need to make sure that people can step into sports clubs and the sport club environments and the leagues are as inclusive as possible and accessible as possible. And there still needs to be a talent pathway. And talent opportunity. So it's not saying that all these other bits aren't the solutions. We need leisure centers and swimming pools to be open. We need to make sure we're working across the commercial and the private sector, as much as just the public sector, all these bits, some absolute advice. But when we really hone into inactivity, we need to really, really listen and get under the teeth and really understand what is the solution now for that one person. It may be a gym. It may be going straight into a club for whatever reason they aren't. That's fine. It isn't about one or the other and I think that's the challenge we have as a sector is actually coming together and recognizing that and being aware of that as much as possible.

Alex: 41:41

Amazing. Thank you. I think the unfair question that I ask towards the end is we spoke about a few things, is there an area that you feel most passionate about as a person that we should, that this is a very, we collective as a sector should be focusing on in terms of tackling inequality? You've covered a few bits today, but yourself personally, what are you most passionate about?

Andy: 42:08

That is an unfair question. So, for me It is about the environment in those communities. So if you look at a real local community, how easy is it and how accessible, I don't mean the clubs or anything else like that at the moment, but how accessible is it and how easy is it to go and play, run around a park or play in a multi sports facility? At the heart of that community. That's what I'm actually really excited. And again, this is personal. I'm really excited by the Playzone programme as an example. I'm excited by Sport England's approach with the FA, the Premier League, the Football Foundation about the multi sport facilities and the direction of travel. That we could have facilities in the heart of communities, which are really accessible, which feel aspirational that people can walk to and the environment around it is conducive for any individual to play on. And we could even be targeted. It could be targeted to a specific demographic, but that facility has been developed with the community that is available to them that their school is an open facility in the evening at the weekends and connected as that safe space for people to go and play on. And we've been involved in opening school facilities and the direction of travel that is going in, I think is really exciting, but aligned with these other bits. So again, if you're living in a real hyper local community that there is stuff there, which is conducive for you and your community, it isn't just stuff that's been put there. Now you're going to go and use it. So, yeah, I will come back. That's probably the bit that excites me the most because I'm seeing and hearing some really positive stuff. I just hope the momentum can be built around that and can move forwards. But yeah, it is difficult to just choose one because it comes back to an approach. It comes back to the how. I think that's the overarching exciting bit is I think there's a recognition that we have to develop things, whatever those things are in a different way.

Alex: 44:23

Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your personal opinion. I think as I go through everything we've discussed today, there seems to be The overarching theme of, well, two themes of the environment you're in and the environment that people are in, and then the feelings, whether it be relationships or collaboration. It seems like those are two overarching things for this conversation today. There's an importance in terms of whether it's your own personal relationship, physical activity and the environment you're in and the relationships you're having with people through to the way you're working and how you want to work with specific demographics or within specific environments and then the way that people are collaborating to achieve on those goals. I think that there's two really nice connections there to, to wrap this up. So thank you very much for today. I really appreciated your time. If, if there's anything you wanted to, to share at the end, by all means do. I think if there's anything that the APN are doing, which you feel like it's good for people to be aware of, this is a perfect opportunity now to, to share that.

Andy: 45:31

No, thank you. Now, the only thing I would add is that the role that leaders, I don't just mean chief execs, I mean anyone who plays a leadership role in achieving what we do, that will be where the success lies or doesn't lie. It really will because we need to be brave as leaders. We need to take people on that journey. We need to leave our logos behind. to achieve what a community would want. So, yeah, that would be the thing that I'm often saying to our team, often saying to our network as much as possible. That's challenging for anyone, but I am, I'd say, for the leadership that, I suppose, Tim and Uniting the Movement and others have played in that, having joined this two years ago, I suppose, in a roundabout way. It does feel like that as momentum. So yeah. No, thank you for today, Alex. And thank you having the conversation. Thank you