Alex: 0:37

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Working It Out podcast. My name is Alex. Thank you very much for joining us today. And today with us, we have the amazing Alison Oliver. Thank you very much for joining us.

Alison: 0:50

You're very welcome. Thank you for the invitation, Alex.

Alex: 0:55

No, no worries at all. So you're number five in our list. So thank you very much for still joining us, even though we're so new. So I really appreciate that. What we do for our first is ask our members to bring in one item into our locker. So we've got a big locker and that's to do with your relationship with physical activity. So to give you a bit of time to think you have been given the brief, but I always let us know the person from the previous episode was Andy Taylor and he put in his crutches link to his relationship with physical activity. A real diverse mix of things. When you're ready, please let us know your one item.

Alison: 1:34

Alex, what would I put in the locker? Well, it's that's a really tough ask actually, but Where I've landed as I think I would put my primary school netball bib in the locker. So I can I can very, very vividly remember being in primary school, I think maybe year three or four, and desperately being absolutely desperate to be in the netball team and going to the trial after school, where there was all of us all turned up, all very excited, eagerly excited, hoping that we would be picked. And Sadly didn't get picked. Just didn't, didn't make the team and was absolutely bereft as, as a child. Just, it was the worst thing that could happen to me. And I can remember running home and crying to my mum and saying, look, I, you know, I really wanted to be in it. And, and the reason why I put the bib in the locker was obviously I, You know, I, I found a great relationship with netball and ended up being a huge part of both my personal development, my, my sporting journey and my, and indeed played a role in my career. But the reason I put the bib in is cause that night when I went home and cried to my mum, she said to me, right, Ali, well, you've got two things you can do. You could give up or you could turn up at every practice and. Carry the balls, give out the bibs, collect the bibs, help with the post, and make yourself useful, and maybe, just maybe one day someone might be not very well and you might get the opportunity to play. And it didn't, the story didn't sort of go like that in that one day suddenly I was called, called in off the sideline. But I did eventually make the team. But what I remember was that lesson that my mum taught me. was a lesson that stayed with me for life, is that you know, if you don't succeed, there are other ways to pursue your ambition. But also this whole point about sport is a great environment to develop lessons for life. And mum was teaching me a lesson for life. Not just about resilience, about being helpful and sport as an environment where we can help others where we can develop those important skills of responsibility and teamwork and all those things. So that's, that's for me, why, why it goes in the locker.

Alex: 3:47

That's an amazing first answer. Thank you very much. I think there's a lot for me to dig into there around. Relationship with a sport in particular around your relationship with your mum. I think we've definitely opened up this podcast in a very lovely way. So thank you for that. The thing that, so those are the kind of two areas I want to dive into for that question, if I can. I think you said around you didn't get in at first and then. You you try and try to, and eventually you had a really lifelong, great relationship with, with Netball. Was there specific points where, where, where that changed and, and was there anything noticeable about that period?

Alison: 4:25

Yeah. Yeah, well, I can remember eventually making the what was then called the B team and being very, very proud to take part. And I think there's something isn't there about we'll get, I'm sure we're going to explore it later, but our relationship with movement and where it starts and how it impacts on us for the rest of our lives. But I do remember being issued with my kit netball skirt as again, as it was then, and just, just feeling like I'd made it. And I think. That never goes away. I, I, you know, I did go on to play netball for club for county a student, national student level and, and, and had the privilege of working in the very early days of the Netball Super League. So I, I, Netball stayed as a huge part of my life as I already said all the way through, but I don't think. you can never underestimate being made to feel you belong and being given that skirt on that first match when I was selected for the B team said to me, you belong here. And I think they're really important lessons for all of us working in sport to how do we make sure that. Everybody belongs, everybody is made to feel they belong and have those moments, but particularly in school sports, we can, we can so easily and inadvertently make a child feel you don't belong. And this is not where you're going to, you know, be in, in your life. If we don't select you, or if we don't give the opportunity to play for the school, no matter whether you're good, bad, or indifferent, it's just a huge, hugely important part of developing that relationship with movement.

Alex: 5:57

Completely agree. I sort of speak, I kind of open up in these podcasts as well in terms of my own relationship and this is one I really resonate with. I felt like with, in schools specifically, there was I didn't have a healthy relationship with sport. I felt like the teachers actually didn't like me and I don't know if that's actually true or that's just how I felt. But I felt like I was achieving really well outside of school in, in sport. I was like you said, around county stuff, I was playing football to an okay level. And I wanted to, I really, all I wanted to do was impress my school teachers, but could never get into the team. And it just didn't make any sense. Why? And the teacher wasn't to me a nice person, but and very much picked the popular kids in the year. And I was a five foot four nerdy little. Big ginger hair and I just, I didn't look the part and I felt like that's why he didn't, maybe I just wasn't good enough and that's something I need to accept and obviously still haven't. But yeah, so it really resonated in terms of the impacts that school can have on someone's physical activity. And I was lucky enough that I found it places outside of school where I could be part of a team, which just really benefited me up right up until now, where if I don't do team sport. My mental health suffers and it's a clear correlation. And I've spoke about it previously. If I do individual activities, I can, I can achieve, but I don't, I don't function well as a, as a human being.

Alison: 7:23

Both sides of that are really fascinating. So you know, it, it, it. Really, really hurts me when I hear that people's experiences of PE and sport in schools, not good. Because so many times people don't like you did find a home outside of schools. So, so many people that is the case, that's, that's the end of it. But also because I look back and I was a PE teacher and I know when I look at the pictures of me and my netball team and my tennis team, my hockey team, when I was teaching, that was all so proud of and invested a disproportionate amount of time. When I look at those pictures, they're all the same girls in every photo. And, you know, that's a real lesson. And one of the things that since I left teaching, I'm trying to put right, if you like, trying to get rid of those demons of some of the behaviors that I held as a teacher were just completely the antithesis of what I should have been doing around making. all the other girls feel they belonged and give them opportunity. So I'm, I'm sorry, that was your experience, but I'm thrilled that you, that you found it elsewhere. And, and that team sport, as you say, does, you know, physical and mental health and then social wellbeing are is a brilliant cocktail and team sport is a great way to mix it.

Alex: 8:31

And, and that builds on mostly to the next point around your first question around the influential person, because you said you cried to your mum and she taught you a lesson. I don't think my mum taught me any specific lessons, but she pretty much forced me into every sport going and made me physically active in terms of there was a different thing every night of the week. And I was going to do it just because she knew I loved it. But I, at the time I was like, no, I don't want to, I don't want to do cricket or actually running. And she's like, no, it'd be good for you. Do these activities. I'm so glad I did now. So my mum played a huge role in terms of just creating a habit for life. So yeah, in terms of your mum, like, it sounds like you played quite an influential role on yourself too.

Alison: 9:13

Yeah, she did, Alex. And I think that sometimes you don't realize these things until later in life, but both my mum and my dad were incredibly influential. My mum wasn't into sport at all, not, not even, not even vaguely. And dad did love sport, but you know, priority is his family, as many do, and his work commitments. So I can remember him playing cricket and I think he played a lot of table tennis and he still plays golf now. But. Do you know, they were both brilliant because they never, they never encouraged me or discouraged me, they just let me be, but I do know that what my mum did, you know, particularly was, was know who I was as an individual and needed, knew that A, I needed to let off some steam. So they will tell, they would have told the story of you know, early primary before I made that netball team, I was difficult to handle as a child, too much energy, too much opinion constantly on the move, getting up to mischief. And then from the time I felt found sport, I settled, I started to learn how to regulate, effectively developed my own sense of self. And, and mum was very good at that. And I think she knew that sport was the place where I found who I was and therefore never really said, you must go, you shouldn't go, you know, if I was injured, wouldn't encourage me to do it one way or the other, but she just made it, made sure I could get there you know, the taxi, the person that washed the kit, the person that did my packed lunch. And you know, in many ways I was exceptionally lucky when I see some of the childhoods in the work that we do at the Youth Support Trust. And I, you know, I see where that isn't present. We know how influential it can be in, in giving people access and, and an opportunity. So yeah. And probably the, the final thing I would mention on that Alex is we lost my mum a couple of, just over a couple of years ago to dementia. When she was diagnosed, I can remember the consultant sitting with us as a family and we were all asking, what do we need to do? Does she need to do Sudoku crosswords? What can we do to help her? And the consultant said, the best thing you can do for mum is get her walking every day because exercise maintains neural pathways in the brain, and that will keep her brain as, as healthy as it can be for as long as it can be. And I was, you know, given I'm a sports science graduate, I'm a PE teacher. I'd never heard the connection at that point between brain and body described so well. And again, we may come back to it later, but it's a huge part of our thinking at the Youth Sport Trust as well now.

Alex: 11:49

Well, firstly, thank you very much for sharing the, it seems like the different points in your life, physical activity has played a number of different roles for you and your family. So and that leads us onto the next question, which does talk about the emotions. So when I say let's do some physical activity, like what does physical activity mean for you? What one emotion, what one word first comes to mind when I say that?

Alison: 12:16

Without a shadow of a doubt, the first word that comes to mind, and it came to mind instinctively when you said it, was freedom.

Alex: 12:22

Freedom.

Alison: 12:23

Freedom as a child. It was where I got to be who I am. I got to be away from the classroom, away from not that I, you know, had nagging parents who have heard, but away from parents, away from my sister. It was just freedom. It was just me, either on the court if I was playing netball, or in the water if I was swimming. And even today now I know sometimes I just have to get away from everything. So going for a run or a bike ride or whatever is just freedom.

Alex: 12:48

That's it. It's an amazing word. I think I can completely relate and I would like to know from yourself in terms of, has there been times outside of childhood? Cause we spoke about, we spoke about childhood a lot where you felt like you've, you've needed that freedom a bit more and, and how the activity has then helped you through that process.

Alison: 13:09

Well, I think, I think it happens on a, if not daily, definitely weekly basis, Alex. So I think, you know, I know when I have not exercised a bit like you described earlier, when you've not played team sport, you kind of know something's not quite right. You. bit more anxious than normal. You're a bit short tempered with people. You can't concentrate. Oh, I know why. I haven't, I haven't gone and done anything. I've been outside for a start and obviously being in the natural environment and having some perspective of an enormous sky above your head instead of a screen, a few inches in front of your face is really, really good. But then once you get moving, everything that we know about the science of movement and the release of hormones and the, you know, the neural activity in the brain, suddenly the fog clears. I feel better. And, and then my brain starts working again. And then I have to run a bit faster or cycle a bit faster because now I've got some thoughts that I need to write down in a notepad. So I think it happens every day and every week, but certainly. Yeah. knowing that and having learned that through my life when I'm, when I'm going through a tough time often at work, but sometimes in your personal life as well, it's, it's a therapy. There is a hugely therapeutic benefit to exercise. And sometimes when I talk to schools and particularly heads of PE, I put therapy on the screen and, but I spell it with a P E at the end, as opposed to a P Y. So. You know, when we're teaching therapy for some young people, that's their time when they'll get some freedom, but also they'll start to shake off some of the anxiety and some of that loneliness, sometimes through the belonging of the activities we create, if we create the right environment, that unfortunately characterizes too many young people's lives.

Alex: 14:51

That weekly basis and, and, and work, the more I am investing into the personal things I love, so I've, I've went to compressed hours and I thought I'm working a four day week, so I want to focus on my podcast on a Friday and the more that's getting busier. And then what I then think I'm contacting sector leaders about their relationship with physical activity, and potentially they don't even have the time to talk about their relationship with physical activity, let alone do the activity itself. And maybe that I'm taking up the spare time they do have. So I can imagine definitely for yourself being pulled around everywhere, left, right, and center, even just. The time it takes to travel to all these meetings, you've been thinking, oh, this could have been when I could have done my swim or I'm missing out on exercise because of X. It must be really hard. The more successful you get as well, in terms of from a working perspective.

Alison: 15:48

I think, I think you're right. I think everybody's lives have become. more busy, more complicated than they perhaps need to be actually sometimes. And I think the job we have whether that's as educators in my case, or working wherever in the sector, is to keep the flame burning bright inside and, and, you know, you can only speak with passion and insight if you're kind of getting that experience. But also we act as role models and I'm very mindful of that at the eSport Trust that, you know, if I, if I appear occasionally in a track suit or I sit in meetings in the afternoon, I'm a bit whiffy because I've been out for a run at lunchtime, you know, that's a, that's a good thing to be demonstrating to people that we can and should feel able to do that. exercise. We, we are really lucky. We have a great policy at the charity where everybody gets their normal kind of coffee breaks, lunch breaks, but they also get what we call active 30, 30 minutes, any other point in the day when they feel the need, they can go out for a walk and then go for a run, go to the gym. We, we, we have a brilliant member of staff, Lucy, who we supported to be trained as the yoga instructor. She runs yoga in the office now. And I think sadly, movement, natural movement has been engineered out of our lives. For all sorts of reasons, we're not hunting for food now. We don't have to walk as often many of us and even, you know, turning the telly over doesn't require us to get up and move. So it's really important. We have to put it back in. And I often say to people, you sometimes you eat on the move, but generally speaking, people will find time at some point in the day to eat once or twice, maybe three times. And we have to do the same with exercise. It's vital to our health and well being and normal functioning as breathing, drinking and eating. So we need to engineer that time in the day.

Alex: 17:40

Before we go on to your earliest memory, what does freedom in exercising look like for you now?

Alison: 17:49

Well, I, I, I do run and I, I love cycling. I'm not particularly good, but I, I really love being on my bike. And I, I think the independence that I learned as a child from having a bicycle was, was hugely foundational for me. And so I love getting out on my bike because, because I can explore places, I can get quite a long way actually on my bike, whereas on foot running, I can't actually get that far. But I think. I think it actually most foundationally means I get away from gadgets, actually, and I'm with the natural environment. Almost every other hour of the day, my phone is close by, if not in front of my face, or I'm with a laptop, some sort of screen. And, and it's the antithesis actually, it's everything that the screen, or it's everything, it's not all the things that the screen is, or it's everything that the screen isn't. It's live, it's real, you know, you can see things, smell things, hear things differently, you've got that enormous perspective. Yeah. And it's not prescriptive. That's what I love about biking and running particularly, cause you can kind of change your route whenever, whenever you want, but I'm, I, I grew up in Cornwall. So I also have a bit of a special relationship with the sea and I, I love anything on the water. Don't put me under the water. I don't want to scuba dive, but I'll, I'll surf, sail, windsurf, paddleboard, whatever, and yeah, that's, that's really important to me. I'm very proud trustee of the Wave Foundation. Charity as well.

Alex: 19:13

Yeah, I did a bit of digging and I saw you are trustee of a few organizations chance to shine or the wave foundation youth United foundation. I've seen the board member of the sports development coalition is the list is incredible, to be honest, to, so to be able to find the time to also do get out on the bike and, and also be a CEO of an organization is incredible. I think that the part around. the Cornwall and the Love of the Sea and growing up there does lead us on very nicely to your earliest memories. Are they your early memories of being physically active?

Alison: 19:49

I think running about either in the park or on the beach, just running about playing. I don't even know whether I was playing with others or I was just playing on my own, making my own play, but being in a space outside, often barefoot That's sort of what I would say is my first emotional connection, that thing about freedom as a child and movement coming together. Just wasn't, wouldn't be as a sport memory as such, but would just be an act of being really vigorously active and just loving seeing what I could do and being curious about what my body could do. And. And just that lovely feeling of the wind in your hair or on your face, just just movement. Loved it. Still do.

Alex: 20:32

That's an incredible one, just like running about playing because I think a lot of people will normally pick a when I have conversations with people that they kind of remember that like big achievements and being like, well, this is when this happened. And that was a substantial moment as a child that will stick with me. But the fact that that what you go back to is around just running and playing, I think that's, that's really says a lot in terms of just how, how you are connected so much that even your buzz word, which is freedom. I really, really enjoy that one. So was it in terms of growing up, did you have any siblings or, or, or people that you would regularly play with in the relationships that you had as a child? What was that like?

Alison: 21:18

Yeah. So I have an older sister, 18 months older. And, and as, as young children, sort of when we were primary age, we did play a lot together and she played You know, various sports as well, but as we, as we grew older, we, we grew not a part in an emotional sense, but a part in a lifestyle sense, because I became just so, I think obsessed would be, would be one of the words, like she had all posters of pop heroes on her walls in her bedroom. And I would, you know, befriend the guy who used to run the local sports shop. So when he got deliveries of sports equipment and kit and they gave him advertising posters, he would pass them on to me. So all of the posters around my bedroom wall were of Daley Thompson and Gillian Jilks, if you even remember who that was. But I had, I can remember having them on my wall because I was just, I was, I was, I was so obsessed that sport was helping me find out who I was. It was the place where I found home and I just loved learning about the discipline of sport and the values of sport. And again, still today. I'm not a great spectator of sport, but when I watch sport, I want to watch live sport because I want to see those interact, the human interactions on the field of play. And I love it when you have the Olympic and Paralympic games and there's just brilliant moments of humanity. That's, that's what I, what I really love. So I think I went off on my own and was quite, I come back to my mum. She once described me famously to a very good friend as being slightly odd squad. Like I was just a bit of a loner. I knew what I liked to do and I really enjoyed it. I, I played team sport, obviously. I, you know, played netball all of my life and enjoyed being part of a, a club and a team. But I was on my own and it was I was kind of plowing my. I had the, the joy being in Cornwall, it's a small county. I was in the netball club, in the hockey club, in the athletics club, tennis club. I just, I just got myself to wherever I needed to get to on my bike and just loved trying my hand at different things and being curious about. About sport and what I would, what I'd be any good at really, because I wasn't naturally good at anything. So I guess maybe as I'm talking, I'm thinking about maybe I was just striving to find out where I might be good at something because of all these heroes that I looked up to.

Alex: 23:38

The curiosity part is also another real love, lovely word as well. So I think we've we've dug into quite a bit there and up this, this first section is flown by, I can't believe it. So thank you very much for sharing so many personal thoughts and feelings. So this next part is around. You're still your personal opinions, but of course your organization and what you work in will influence that opinion. And you'll want to share specific projects that are going on, but now we're looking at your personal reasons for the root causes of inactivity in England, and I would like to start that by just saying, could you give a bit of information about your role, your organization and its links to physical activity now we know you as a person. Let's dig into your role.

Alison: 24:26

Sure. Well, thanks Alex. So I'm currently the chief executive of a children's, national children's charity called the Youth Sport Trust. It's been around 29 years. It's our 30th anniversary next year and it's always maintained a very simple and I think beautiful mission, which is to build brighter futures for young people through play and sport. That's what we exist to do and we were established by two amazing visionaries, I think Sir John Beckwith, who is a wonderful philanthropist and it was his original idea back in the sort of early to mid 1990s. To create a charity, which supported children to get those benefits that come from playing sport. But he was a businessman, didn't know his way around sport very, very well but decided that's what he wanted to do. And it's like all good businessmen when he's decided he's going to make it happen. And he teamed up with Duncan Goodhue. Who is still our vice president. So John's our president and Duncan's the vice president. And Duncan at the time was one of our most successful GB athletes, swimmer gold in Moscow incredible human being. And the wonderful thing about the combination of the two of them is, so John had his idea to set the Youth Sport Trust up and he was being driven to his house in a rather nice part of London and he, and he saw a couple of youths as he would describe them punching each other on the side of the street as he drove past and thought, my goodness, if this is happening in my neighborhood, you know, what could be happening elsewhere. And we need to find some positive activities. If young people want to fight, let's put them in a boxing ring or give them an opportunity to do it in a controlled environment. And then you had Duncan who, I don't know if you know anything about Duncan Goodhue, not only an awesome athlete swimmer but he suffered from alopecia as a child, he suffers from dyslexia, and he will use the words, he often felt he was drowning in the classroom, which the analogy won't be lost on anyone as a swimmer, because of his dyslexia. So John, so John felt, let's do something with sport positive for young people and Duncan said, let's do it in schools. That's because for not every young person school is a great experience, particularly those who have talents that aren't academic talents or might have, as Duncan did, dyslexia or other conditions which impact on their learning. And if we could help schools really understand the power of play and sport in the education and development of young people. We could make our schools much more successful, create more rounded human beings and actually allow a whole heap of young people to have a brighter future who wouldn't otherwise if people didn't give them the opportunity to learn in and through sport and express their talent. So that's a little bit of a story to, to why we're here. We work, still in education predominantly from naught to 25 year olds, but mainly in early years, primary, secondary, special schools, alternative education provision then sitting alongside organizations like AOC sport and, and bucks at the older age. But we, We exist to inspire movements, interaction, school movements, and, you know, always movements of young people, young leaders, particularly who've developed their leadership skills through sport. We're constantly innovating in how we use sport to build brighter futures as society changes and the things that young people have to deal with change. COVID would be a brilliant example. And then we are lucky enough to have a great network of schools. So we're often a chosen partner to implement programs at scale. Things like the school games, which is a program for, for the DCMS and Sport England at the moment. But all with the same mission, build brighter futures through sports, staying very true to Sir John and Duncan's early vision for the charity.

Alex: 28:16

Thank you very much. I think there's, there's a quite a bit to just dig in there in terms of your introduction. I think I, I didn't know the, the origin and I, I take two approaches to this podcast. I dig into the, the person's personal relationship and the person's history. So I've got, I've had a data crawl through social media exception for yourself, but not the organization.'cause I think the part which is. Good about this. This is, I come in going, I'm trying to work it out. Let's figure out what's going on, what's happening in the sector. And I, I, through working in my day job at Sport England, I've have very much top line level information about all the organizations that we work with in the sector. So there's a lot there, which I'm learning on the go and I hope others are too. I think the parts around the two founders is, is incredibly interesting and how the two different perspectives have come together, I think. And, and also Just previously working at Active Dorset and seeing how school games can be implemented. I think it's an amazing program. The part which I thought was really interesting is that the power of play and sport in education. I think going through, and there's a few different organizations that you mentioned, like BUCS, etc. Reading it in, in yourself, you've been in education in many different spheres throughout. So I've seen you've you've worked as a P. E. teacher, but you also worked at the University of Bath. So, you've got that higher education experience as well. Just, just in terms of the difference, before we go into mapping it out, how did you feel in terms of, in terms of it, the, the delivery of activity and the difference in activity between higher education and in schools?

Alison: 29:52

Mm. Great question, Alex. Great question. Massive, actually. I mean, having been through university as a student, I was surprised when I went back to work in the sector, how much I hadn't seen, you know, just going through it personally. But when you're in a different role, you see it very differently. So Like, probably the two, the two really significant standout differences which I've, you know, taken forward in, in some of my thinking and work at the Youth Sport Trust is, you know, in schools, we have wonderfully physical education in the national curriculum as a foundation subject to every key stage, which means children should, theoretically, get a diet of physical education as part of their curriculum in every year. But of course it's designed, the curriculum is designed and delivered by somebody else and there's very little choice often given to the student or the pupil in a school. And it's disproportionately organized and delivered by either teachers or adults other than teachers. Whereas when you get to university, it's completely choice, you know, it's not compulsory at all. That wonderful moment that if listeners have been to a university, we know they have these sort of freshers fairs where there's everything on offer from netball to karting. I love

Alex: 31:18

them.

Alison: 31:18

skydiving to scuba diving. It's just everything and it's choice. And you get to go, Oh my goodness, there are things I've never tried before. I can try. And it's wonderful because the Fresh Affair faces you completely because you sign up to a hundred clubs and then you, after trying a lot of them, you decide the ones you want to go to. And that's how the clubs, that's the economics of, of higher education sport, but it's brilliant because you get to, and then the second thing is, that's wonderful is it's led and organized by students and the students unions and sports associations. Run it and organize it. So it's peer led. And what we're trying to do at the Youth Sport Trust today is try and bring some of those principles closer to the school experience, particularly for older students, where we see the biggest step away from. sport and physical activities, sadly, anywhere from kind of primary, secondary transition onwards, really, but particularly key stage three, four transition. And, and that's exactly at the moment where we should be building choice, voice, independence into school, sport and physical education. So we're weaning young people away from being led and directed by others to leading their own, their own lives. So some really stark differences. but incredibly helpful to have had the privilege of working in both sectors and seeing it from both sides.

Alex: 32:34

It's incredible some of the words you say that because the last two years working at Sport England, I've been the one from a Sport England side working on the Play Their Way campaign, which is around Introducing the rights of the child into coach education and the words that we use to talk about the right to play the right to contribute towards their journey is this voice choice and journey, and I've never necessarily created the link between my previous work where I worked in higher education for. Six years working on sport participation, attending the freshers fairs, helping clubs develop to engage more individuals. And I never really created the link between my previous role and my current role. And that is a real thread in terms of everything I'm trying to do. So just in terms of the words that you're using, that creates a clear link for me and what can be replicated in the HE and how can we learn from HE and implement that within a, within a child setting. That's a really interesting angle that Has given me a lot of food for thought, actually one for another conversation, I think, because we could go to a huge tangent about my work, and that's not what we're here for today. So yeah, thank you for that. So this part is around mapping the causes of inactivity. So if you were going to start, and this is, this is quite a big question. If you would say, well, let's start mapping out the causes of inactivity, where does your brain naturally go to? How would you start this process?

Alison: 34:02

Thanks, Alex. And just to say before I go on, Play Their Way is fantastic. And we're very privileged again to be part of that. And it's doing some amazing, amazing work on particularly education and attitudes and perceptions of children's rights in and through sport. So brilliant work. Where would I start? I would start, I would start at the beginning. So number one, we know that maternal health and well being impacts the unborn child. And then secondly, we know that children's growth and development happens in spurts, but nought to five is an enormous spurt, like 90 percent of our brain is developed by age five. And when we know, as I touched on earlier, the inherent and intrinsic link between movement and cognition and movement and neural development of the brain. You know, young people are both developing their brains in those early years, they are developing emotions in those early years and they are, they are building connections and relationships. So I would absolutely start in the early years. And the fact that we. we don't have any sort of physical development specialist expertise in early years is a huge weakness, a huge weakness because we, we, children are developing, you know, all the, there's a huge amount of research around, you know balance particularly in the vestibular system in the inner ear, which, you know, is so fundamental to how we feel when we move. And we develop that very early in life, rolling twisting, turning, balancing, being held upside down or turning ourselves upside down. That's how we develop it. If we don't develop that, then we're forever going to find movement hard for a start. But also that vestib apparatus has a huge impact on emotional control and how we manage our, our behaviors day to day. So I would absolutely start there for both the physical. Relationship with movement, but also because we, that's such an important part of using movement to develop the child and I think it carries on from there, Alex, so I won't kind of go through everything, but at the Youth Sport Trust, we, we have a wonderful program called Healthy Movers, which supports early years practitioners with physical development. Expertise and brilliantly, it has a stay in play elements to healthy movers where parents can come and join in the activity and learn how to play with their child. Because sadly you know, many adults have lost the confidence of how to play, don't know how to play. find it easier to hand on an iPhone or a tablet or something like that. And that's what play is to them. And then the child goes away with a rucksack full of equipment that they can then play at home with, with their family. And we're doing our very best with some incredible support from a number of local authorities and partners. But it should be, that should be a fundamental if we're really serious about setting the foundations for healthy, active lifestyles, as well as You know, well socialized young people that are school ready. That's where I'd start.

Alex: 37:14

Wow, that's incredible. I think the part which I'm picking up when we're speaking to it, which I've got to dig into some specific points, but there seems to be For you, a clear purpose in terms of your relationship with physical activity and the work that you're currently doing. I can see a line between you saying your one word being freedom and you in a role where you're trying to support children in a place where you say there's curriculum putting restraints on what they're trying to do and you trying to enable children to have a choice and to have freedom in the type of activities that they're doing. So initially that. That's an amazing link though, which has just come out when speaking. Then, then when we go into, when we're mapping activities, it's really interesting here that we've gone specific, straight into an area of children and by age five. So what ages does the Youth Sport Trust currently work with?

Alison: 38:13

So our charitable objects are nought to 25, but I touched on a little bit earlier, we do most of our work in 18 months to 18 years. And, and that's both resourcing and about specialization and recognition in the ecosystem. There are others. you know, certainly as we talked about AOC Sport, BUCS, and many others working in, in other areas. So 18 months, 18 years is really where we do the lion's share of our work.

Alex: 38:42

Okay. So then if we're talking about specifically this, this point around children's growth and development by age of five and you've given some examples specifically around useful trust and the work that you're doing. What do you feel as a sector we need to be doing more of? And of course we can go to people like Sport England, and I don't mind pointing at Sport England as well, to say that we need to disproportionately or proportionately fund specific areas. But as a sector, what do you feel we could be doing more or less of to engage with children before the age of five?

Alison: 39:17

I think it's really hard actually for us as a sector as if we're talking about the sport sector.'cause we're not talking about sport. We're talking about movement and play. Mm-Hmm. So I think to answer that question would be for the sector to be a bit broader and, and for play to be, have a more significant role in our sector potentially, or for us to be working with the play sector and ready to pick up the bat. As children kind of pass through that early years into their kind of formal education into primary school. And that's where I think the ecosystem and, and, and, and sport more has its, has its opportunity and has its moment. But I think if nothing else, we should be talking, if we're talking about the sport ecosystem, very generally here, we should be talking about what we are seeing when we start to interface with young people. Like, we can do a lot by using our voice to bring to the fore, the, the, the challenges. And what we're seeing and increasingly seeing because of the impact of lockdown on children is we are seeing children with all manner of developmental delays, coordination delays, socialization delays. We've seen an explosion in neurodiversity. I think, you know, we can try and catch up and of course we will try and catch up and over index on trying to support those young people who've suffered the most, but being able to verbalize that there are issues coming through and that signals that there are gaps. in the system. But the early years environment is a specialist, highly skilled context. And I think it's play that's much more an important sector to work with those early years environments than sport per se.

Alex: 41:09

Yeah, it's a really interesting one because when I was at Active Dorset at the time, it was the county sport partnership. And I think as a network, they are They have for many years been remodeling reorganizing and mainly because like Sport England is their main funding source, but they've also got, they're also looking for additional funding. So they've had to really understand their community's need and the role that sport can play and moved into health and And, and wellbeing and movement and play earlier than Sport England has, and hence the, the name change from a county sport partnership to an active partnership. I think from the, from a youth sport trust point of view, do you see youth sport trust as a sport playing, taking over the or youth sport trust sport being a wider umbrella term now?

Alison: 42:08

Gosh I wish we had longer to debate this one, Alex, because a number of people have told me since I've been in my role at the Youth Sport Trust, if you only changed your name, you'd find it much easier to work with people working part time.

Alex: 42:20

It's probably the same with sports. I think there's

Alison: 42:21

probably two things here. What we, what we're trying to do as a charity is we're trying to go where children need us the most. And we had our origins in sport, as you've heard in the storytelling earlier, and that's, that's who we are. That's in our DNA. And we, we aren't just about physical activity. We are about organized activity, whatever that might be. It doesn't mean that it has to be a highly competitive, highly structured. It doesn't even need to be traditional sport, but, but sport. Sport means something. It, it, it means there is an environment where we come together to try and achieve something. And I think that's an invaluable context for learning. So, and listen, we talk about, we play sport, we play sport, sport and play are Interchangeable in my mind, but when, when we're dealing with early years, then we need to be thinking about what's appropriate activity and, and, and some games are modified versions of sports, which children will play in the early years, and then it evolves and becomes sport, but probably one of the reasons why I've always resisted. and challenged back when people say to me about we should change our name. I think we should be reclaiming sport. I don't think we should be running away from sport. I think we should be reclaiming it. It has become for some people a bit of a tarnished brand and I mentioned earlier when I look back at my time as a PE teacher with horror at what I was and wasn't doing. You know, we've got to put that right. That sport is wonderful, cradle to grave for every ability, every individual. Sport can be made great and it's the sector's responsibility to, to, to make, reclaim sport and, and, and make sure it is a really positive experience that's inclusive for everyone. So I think play and sport for me, they're a bit interchangeable, but I know for some people, they like to have pure definitions and sport means 11 a side soccer or 7 a side netball and with an umpire and on a court that's X meters long and a. Post that's X meters high. That's not how I see sport.

Alex: 44:30

So that's really interesting. Cause working on play their way and the campaign, I have heard the term sport is play like ruined by adults. And I, I'm in complete agreement with you, with yourself. I'm completely sort of like, no sport, sport is potentially play ruined by sector in terms of our previous ideologies about what we wanted. So there's, there's definitely a lot of thinking there as well. So, yeah, I was more just interested cause I've always, like I said, we can have a very long conversation about this, but where we're at, we're from active partner, county sport partnership to active partnership and, and sport England and, and And I'm in the completely same camp as yourself around how can we, we reclaim sports and say that it is part of a bigger picture. It's not something, it's not something that needs to be seen in a certain way. So completely, completely agree. So when we spoke around the impact of COVID. Yeah. And so then that could, that sounds like it was. Hugely impactful on your organization in terms of focusing on children and, and from your earlier point around the development before the age of five, how has your work or how should the work of the sector, how has COVID impacted what we should be doing to support a child develop?

Alison: 46:03

Yeah, I mean, it's been, it's been huge for everybody, hasn't it? Let's face it, but it has left its mark on our young generation, I think, in a way that we're only now beginning to realise. I often talk about in the midst of the pandemic, we were concerned most about, and rightly so, about our most vulnerable, which tended to be the elderly and those with, you know, particular health conditions. And then. When we were through the worst of it, and we'd got the vaccine, and we were starting to get it under control, then the biggest concern was the working age, and would people have jobs, and we had that amazing furlough scheme that kept people going. And I think now we're starting to realize the consequences. Of, of lockdown. It's not COVID itself. It was the, it was the consequence of COVID, the lockdown, the time young people spent in their bedrooms, away from their friends, less time outdoors, and more time in front of a screen. And, and we can't, we must not, at our peril ignore the impact that that has on young people's relationship with movement, how they feel about being in a team or a club. There are an enormous number of young people still very anxious about being around people just because they spent two years of their most developmental phase of their life, not with people that creates social anxiety. And, you know, we see 20 percent of children persistently absent from school that will have an impact for every organization working in sport, every coach working in sport, every volunteer. Every, every parent with a child, it's got huge consequences. And I think for us as a charity, we launched a new strategy in 2022 with the thinking heavily dominated by that. So it's just got three simple objectives. One is build back happier, healthier. more resilient young people and level the playing field, a real emphasis on targeting those in greatest need. And, and we're doing much more targeted work now around place. Again, following some of the excellent lead from Sport England and the work of the active partnerships, we got 20 growth areas and we're, we're, we're placemaking is a language you use internally in those, those tougher environments, but. Second objective is, is balance the demands of the digital age through the human connection of play and sport, you know, the, the, the digital age was here before COVID, let's face it, but for children, they had to spend more time in front of screens, because that's where their learning happened. But now we have to balance that. It's there, it will always be there. But how do we, we balance those demands, particularly through human, human, upon human time in, in, in real life. And then the third one is societal change, which is, we need to really shift. public perception on the importance of movement and play and the role of sport in children's education and and development. So we're not having to argue it back into the school day as a head teacher or a leader of multi family trust. You wouldn't dream that Of having children sat down for seven hours a day, you would get them up and moving. You wouldn't dream of squeezing time for physical education in key stage four. When it comes to exams, that's where you'd know children would need it more. And as a parent or carer, you would do everything you could to find ways for your child to, to, to play even. If you have very modest means, how do you give them that freedom and space to let them do their thing? As you said quite brilliantly there, Alex, about, you know, unfettered by adults, just do their thing. Children will naturally just play. We just need to provide them some space and a safe environment to do it.

Alex: 49:39

That sounds incredible. Oh, I think that's a really lovely place to, to end on this as well. So thank you very much for today, Alison. I really appreciate you coming on. I really appreciate you sharing your own personal story. And then you can see so clearly how that links with the work that you've been doing throughout your career, but most definitely within your current role. So really appreciate you sharing that.

Alison: 50:01

You're very welcome. I've loved the conversation. He won't not, might not be a surprise because you've been doing this for a while. The theme of your podcast working out, you've helped me work out some things. I've been making some notes about things that I hadn't realized since you'd got me to verbalize them. So thank you.

Alex: 50:17

Did you have no worries at all, that's the main part of this is around. Let's work out some few things together as a sector and take a personal approach to it rather than a very formal way of, of discussing what the kind of issues are. So I'm glad that's coming out