Alex: 0:37

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Working It Out podcast. I've got a very amazing guest with me today from a really cool organization called This Woman Runs, previously This Mum Runs. I would like to welcome to the Working It Out podcast, Mel Bound. Welcome Mel

Mel: 0:54

Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Alex: 0:58

I think what we're gonna do first is what I do with all of our guests is talk about our Working it Out locker and what we asked all of our people to do is put one item from your experiences with physical activity and put that into our locker. So we've had loads of previous examples, and the previous ones would include Andy Taylor's being his crutches. And we've had Hayley's being her HRT patch. So really varied mix. So really interested to hear what your one item would be.

Mel: 1:27

So I love this question and I had lots of fun thinking about what I might put in and there's, I had a massive long list and then narrowed it down to the item I've chosen. And it might be a bit of a surprise to you the item I've chosen as well. So it's a 32 year old sports trophy. And it's got, it's got a series of crests on it with girls names engraved. And it's actually a trophy I donated to my school when I was 18, when I left the school. And I think of all the items I could have chosen, it's probably, probably the item that will tell you most about the real Mel and the reason why I do the work that I do now. And so just kind of context to the trophy. So I've been a really sporty kid through school. And I played in all the teams, I had the school colours, I played for clubs outside of school, and all of that. But I remember thinking and feeling that it was profoundly unfair that my friends who liked sport but maybe didn't make the cut for teams were essentially ignored. I just thought that was just wrong. Which is quite a big thing for an 18, 17, 18 year old to be feeling. But that's, I felt it really strongly. And it's weird the things you remember when I was thinking about this trophy. I remember I was thinking about a girl in my year who I've actually since leaving school, never seen. So we went our separate ways and we've never seen each other again, but a girl called Caroline Richardson. And she loved playing hockey and she loved playing netball. But she just never made it into the team. And so she just stopped playing. And even at the time, I just thought, that's just, that's just wrong. So, when I left I decided I wanted to leave something behind that would, in a teeny tiny way, celebrate the kids and the young people that tried really, really hard, that really improved, but perhaps would never be the kids winning school colours. And, yeah, so I left.

Alex: 3:18

that's incredible.

Mel: 3:20

Yeah, I found out recently, very bizarrely, one of the the girls I played hockey and netball with at school ended up as the PE teacher back at the same school. And we were back in contact recently and I found out that that the trophy has been presented, was presented every year for 26 years. And it's only recently been retired. And the only reason it was retired was because my old PE teacher, so the PE teacher that I had at the time, she retired. And so they replaced her, my trophy with a trophy from her. And one of the little things on my on my list of things to do is to I really want to get my hands on the trophy and contact the 26 recipients of the trophy. Like I'd love to know what their stories are and what they've gone on to do in terms of being physically active.

Alex: 4:06

Oh, that's a podcast, isn't it? That's a podcast series if ever I heard one. 26 episodes. That sounds unbelievable. Firstly, thank you for sharing that. A 32 year old trophy. That's amazing. So it sounds like school was quite influential in terms of your relationship with physical activity then.

Mel: 4:23

Yes,

Alex: 4:24

digging into your history as I do with everyone, I saw that you were you said, you said that you were quite wheezy and asthmatic as a kid, and that your kids, and that your parents threw you into. Sports. Was that how was that a big catalyst for you engaging in physical activity or were you always for sporty? And then how did it like becoming asthmatic impact you?

Mel: 4:46

So that's such a great question. And so I was really chronically asthmatic as a kid and it was at a time before, you know, all the fancy inhalers and drugs and things that we have these days. So it really, you know, if you had an asthma attack, it was a major deal and you ended up in hospital. And at the time I also had a lot of allergies as well, actually, so I'm allergic to nuts. And so I'd have these weird allergic reactions to things and, and kids, kids notice difference, don't they? And so I became, a kid that was a little bit picked on, that was a little bit othered because I was the weird wheezy kid and the weird allergy kid. And actually it wasn't initially my parents. It was our local GP. It was our family GP. And we'd gone for a, for an asthma checkup and he, Dr. McNeil, I don't think he's even alive anymore or would know how much of an influence he had in my life. But he basically said to my parents that, you know, we will give her medication and here's what's available. But actually the best thing you can do for her is get her outdoors and running and active. Because if you can, if you can make her lungs stronger, then her asthma will improve. I mean, how forward thinking is that for a, you know, a GP in the, in the 1970s to give that sort of advice. And, and honestly, that advice completely changed my life because My parents did throw, you know, my mum in particular threw me into, right, you're going to go to every club and we're going to encourage you to do as much as possible. And I think the other, the other kind of real catalyst was, I heard this on one of your other podcasts actually, from one of your other guests. talking about the influence of a PE teacher at primary school. Alongside this amazing GP, I also had an amazing PE teacher at my primary school called Mr. Lee. And he really threw himself into, right, we're going to really encourage this kid to be as active as possible. And as it turned out, I was actually quite a good runner. And kind of inadvertently, This talent and quite quickly, I went from being the weird wheezy kid to Mels the one that we like in a school relay races, we need to have on the final leg and we need her to do the hundred meter sprint. And suddenly I had this identity and it was all linked to being active and running and being, and being good at something. And say for me, that was, that kind of was the start of a love affair, I guess, of me and running and how wrapped up it is in my entire identity.

Alex: 7:05

That's amazing. And in a bit, we're going to talk around your earliest memories of being physical active, and I'm guessing they're going to be quite interlinked. Before we jump into that, what the next part we do is we've got our one item. So thank you so much for the trophy. And there's loads of bits there, which I'm going to, so confident is going to be linked to what we're going to be talking about later. But now we're going to go into one emotion. So when we talk about physical activity and someone says, Would you like to do some sport? Would you like to go out for a run? What's that one emotion that first comes to mind that makes you think, well, how do you feel when that, when those, those questions are asked?

Mel: 7:44

So a few words always bubble up for me actually, and I could narrow them down to two. So one is headspace and freedom. And I think that comes from a place of, you know, I'm a mum, I run a business, I'm busy. There's pretty much no moment in any day where someone's not asking something of me or talking to me or wanting something from me. And so when I step out the door to go, for a run, it's an opportunity just to press pause in my brain and have some headspace and some quiet. But that actually wasn't the word I chose in answer to the question. So the word I chose is actually connection. And I chose the word from the perspective of having the total absence of connection with myself and my personality about 10 years ago after I had an accident out running and ended up needing spinal surgery and a year of rehab and really not believing that I would ever be active again. So for me now, the sheer joy of that feeling of an absolute abundance of connection with myself with nature and with the communities that I'm part of, whether that's my running community or the netball team that I play for, or when I volunteer for This Woman Runs. It's, it's an absolute game changing feeling for me. And that's why I can describe it as a feeling of being tethered and connected. And that gives me confidence. And it's the thing that keeps me coming back to. going out for a run or turning out for a match. It's the golden thread that even when days go past and I've been busy or I've been injured or I've been a little bit unwell or I've had stuff going on with my kids, it's the golden thread that gives me absolute confidence that not many more days will go past before I'm active again because that feeling of connection is so important to me and to so many women in the This Woman Runs community, which I'm sure we'll get to as well.

Alex: 9:46

I think it's good that you ended to the connection and having the absence of connection. And I'd like to pick up on point around. You said you had the accident and you were out of physical activity. How was it for you when you were, when you had this accident, when you, when you weren't able to be physically active and when you weren't able to engage with people, how did that feel?

Mel: 10:05

Honestly, it was absolutely catastrophic for me. So it kind of, the accident happened at a time that was already quite tricky in my life. So I've become a new, I was a new mum. I had, at the time of my accident, I had a so I've got two kids, 14 and 10, and I had the accident in between. Yeah, I had the accident out running, actually. So at the time, I didn't realise what had happened. I was out with my daughter in a running buggy, and we were running in the woods, and I had a bit of a stumble, and I really didn't, it really, at the time, I wouldn't have called it an accident. It didn't feel like very much, but actually what I'd done is rupture a disc in my back. And that ended up like it took actually took about a year to get to the place where I, where I had surgery. It was a whole kind of an interesting journey of going through pain pathways and navigating the health system and trying to get the support that I needed, but it ended up in surgery. And after the surgery, I because it's such major surgery, I had a disc, my discs fused. And essentially the brief to me was, okay, for six months, you can't lift anything heavier than a kettle. Bearing in mind at the time I had an 18 month old daughter and you can't walk further than the end of your road. And, and to someone whose entire identity, as I've just described, is wrapped up in being outdoors, being active, exploring nature, being connected with, you know, other people through teams and, you know, running, running buddies and things like that. It was it was just, it was a life changer. And I think I became very depressed and I couldn't, I could not see a way out of it. The real kind of what saved me, I think, was that I had an absolutely so much so much of I think what happens in physical activity comes down to a person having an impact and saying something or doing something that actually enables you to take a slightly different path. But I had a trainer. that was I was working with on my rehab and after about a year she kind of given me little nudges around you know you're okay to start thinking about running again and I'd always shut it down. And eventually I thought, actually maybe I can think about it again. And she said, well, why don't you try and find a local woman who has maybe got the same worries and anxieties that's really time poor, like you know, maybe he's got young children and find someone to run with because that's that will help you get started. And that was the catalyst really to everything that came that that's come next and everything I now do with This Woman Runs because I went home and I just on a total whim, put a post on to. It was like a mum's buying and selling group on Facebook and I put a post and I didn't give the whole story and I didn't say I'm really depressed and I can't get out of the house and I did give a bit of context around how I was feeling about you know, not, not being active and how hard I was finding it. And just inviting anyone that felt like they might want to be a running buddy to turn up and meet me on Wednesday night at the local park. And, and it was November and it was dark and it was rainy and it was, I almost didn't go because, you know, I thought no one would turn up. But from that post, 75 women turned up to meet me to come to be a running buddy, to turn up, you know, can you imagine as, as someone that's, you know, massively lacking in confidence that has not been active for over three years, that really. I really didn't know quite where I was going to start again. And suddenly all these women turn up and are looking at you expectably, like I had a plan, which I didn't.

Alex: 13:34

Yep.

Mel: 13:35

I definitely didn't have a plan, but what I really,

Alex: 13:37

Just hoping for one mate

Mel: 13:39

I thought no one would turn up. I did not expect all these women who I'd never met before to turn up. And I, we, that night we kind of, we went up, we went for a 10 minute run down the road in the rain, along the main road. It was not glamorous. And when we got back to the park, we stood outside the park for a couple of hours and chatted. And it was like a massive light bulb moment that went off for me, where I thought, you know, not only are there all these women feeling the same way, But actually, the reason they've turned up, they've turned up ostensibly for a run. But actually, what has kept us standing here for a couple of hours is connection. And, you know, kind of shared experiences and shared challenges and Oh my God moments. Yeah, I feel like that moments, you know, all of those things that suddenly just bonded us instantly. And I, and I went from thinking, I can never do this again to thinking to feeling hope. And I want this again. And this group of women are going to help me with that. And that's where it all started.

Alex: 14:36

That's incredible I've read parts of the story, but we're just just hearing it you can you can see why Organizations like yourselves why they work so well just because it's just was so natural, there there is a demand for it, the beginnings of a very humble. There's no commercial gain from it is I'm just a woman who wants to go out for a run. And I need some friends to run with who's with who's with me. And it's an incredible story. And that's why when you think of like interventions and the way that. In my opinion, always, and whether the word is critical or just observant, the way that Sports England used to run in terms of we create these high level of interventions and place them in random areas and expect the whole country to engage and receive it in the same way. It just wasn't as natural as the new kind of way of working with organizations like yours, where it's. You're the expert in that area. You've got that lived experience. You're doing something incredible. How can we support you to drive something better? So, yeah, it's just so good to hear.

Mel: 15:45

Just going to add Alex, I think one of the things, I think, I often think about, about why We've been able to grow in the way we have and why we've been able to continue to hold space for women in the way we do so consistently, although, you know, we're now in 80 locations around the country. And I think it comes from a personal place of firstly, having experienced the absolute sheer joy of being a physically moving and knowing. the freedom it brings, that kind of, the feeling of strength and joy and all the great things that we know, I know, that comes from being physically active. But conversely, Having gone through that journey myself for three or four years, deeply understanding a very kind of deep

Alex: 16:33

Mm,

Mel: 16:34

level, the how challenging it feels when you are not active to take that first step and then kind of build the momentum and overcome that inertia and overcome all of your fears and the emotional barriers and the practical barriers and everything. I understand deeply how hard that is and I think having those two perspectives is baked into our DNA is core to everything we do it's how we think about training volunteers and creating experiences and coaching for everything comes from that place of I get it I get how hard this but also I know how joyful it is and I want to give that to you and that's baked

Alex: 17:11

Mm.

Mel: 17:11

into everything that we try to do basically. Absolutely.

Alex: 17:15

That's incredible. I think even when we talk about emotions, there are some really interesting words around and I'd love how it's gone from, Your feeling of connection and we spoke about when you're not doing physical activity that you've used words like depression and then you go all the way through the emotions right to When you're doing activity and you to hope so it can it just shows that There are sport can bring out some huge emotions, but also can cure some quite dark emotions. That's really that's really interesting. And so when we think about Yourself we've spoken about school quite a bit. It would be really interesting to hear around your earliest memories of being physically active. Is there anything is it school or is there anything else that stands out?

Mel: 18:05

my very earliest earliest memories are absolutely school, say primary school weirdly brownies as well. We had a, we had a really active brownie pack. So we did, you know, sports days and loads of active and active stuff. But my absolute earliest memory. And probably one of the happiest memories of my life, I would go as far to say, was was a fun run in my village. So it, it been organized by, you know, a local village association for the kids that lived in the village. And it happened every year. And it was from the from the, from the center of the village. And we ran and basically it was running to the bottom shops and back. That's basically what we did. It was about a mile and a half. And I have got such vivid memories of turning up, we were given a little race number and my number was number 47. and and I remember, really vividly remember, kind of lining up with all the other kids and that feeling of, excitement, but also butterflies and could I do it? And all of that. And most of all, I remember is just running my little heart out. As we set off, I remember feeling really free and really happy. I genuinely, that's what I felt. I was maybe nine or 10 years old and bearing in mind I was really asthmatic and my lungs were not happy a lot of the time. My lungs felt really strong and they filled with air and I could feel my heart pumping and it felt really good. And that just was such a special feeling that I've never forgotten. And yeah, even though I was beaten to first place by Matthew Lambert, who I've never forgiven. I was pretty much hooked on that feeling. So it wasn't even about running. It wasn't about, It wasn't about winning. It wasn't about the distance. It wasn't about how fast it was. That feeling I was hooked on. And still am.

Alex: 19:58

That's such a vivid memory and even when you're talking there, you just unlocked memories for me of of similar situations which I've completely forgotten about running in school. I think it's really interesting to cover something like brownies as well because that hasn't, Come up before and they're really structured organizations in my new role supporting This Girl Can We've had conversations with girl guys and we can see the influential roles they can, they can have. So how did an organization like brownies that help you? What were the memories related to them?

Mel: 20:28

Well, for a start, they had regular sports days. We had sports days against other against other brownie packs. And yeah, and they were quite competitive, don't get me wrong, but also they were inclusive. So everyone, everyone got to go at something some, you know, there was quite races and hula hooping and, as well as the kind of more traditional running races. And I've got a photo actually, and it's pretty blurry because cameras back then were not very good. I've got a photo kneeling in my garden, my back garden, the house I grew up. And I've got my brownie, my brownie sports kit. So I don't even know if that's a thing these days, but we had our brownie uniforms, which were the dresses, but our brownie sports kit, which were a yellow t shirt and brown shorts. And the t shirt is covered in little colored dots. And the colored dots are all of the, represented all of the events I've taken part in. It just, I absolutely, it was one of my favorite bits about brownies. I absolutely loved it. And actually recently I went to, actually wasn't that recently, maybe five years ago when my daughter was at brownies, I went to her brownie pack and did a did a whole talk about movement and running and, you know, the joy of that. and actually the brown owl subsequently joined our community and but as a beginner and went through our beginner running program. and then was able to kind of take that experience back and talk to the brownies about it. So I think there's there's some sort of opportunity in there definitely because I think by the time girls get to guide that's where you've started to you know they're in that into that primary secondary transition age and that's where you really start to see that we know that you start to see that drop off in terms of physical activity but if you can work with with girls while they're still at primary school whether that's through school or through things like brownies there's a real opportunity to. Flip their experience of being physically active and make it full of joy and and confidence.

Alex: 22:18

That circle of going to your daughter's brownies and then the brown owl coming to your run is quite a nice one. There's a real cyclical thing going on there, which makes me really happy inside. I think when I talk to, My wife, she was so surprised I didn't do something like Scouts. She's like, it doesn't make any sense how keen I am. And that I didn't do those sort of structured activities because they seem amazing, but it just wasn't something which I had access to at the time. But I can see how the structure of the activities like organized sports in PE and organized, even the social activities that you're doing, whether they're inter, well, as part of your curriculum or external, they all seem very structured, organized, and they've been able to support you to have that nice healthy habit. So it seems like there's been some real influential organizations or schools that have really been able to keep that habit. And then you can start to see how, when it comes to a situation where you, as an adult, and things happen. along the way. Slips, trips, childbirth, whatever it is, where you don't have those organizations you have to, who do you turn to?

Mel: 23:33

I didn't feel like there was anywhere to go because the things you know injury and rehab aside even as a new mom you of the things I might have done previously like go to running clubs or you know previously done things like military fitness type bootcampy things, they were a firstly, they've just completed the wrong time, so I couldn't access them. And I think coming, this my experience, I know it's not everyone's experience, but coming back into physical activity after having kids you know, there has been an impact on your body, and that was all recognised and talked about. And I didn't necessarily want to go and straight back into the sorts of things I've been doing before, but there was no alternative. That was kind of more tailored to where I was at emotionally, psychologically, physically, practically in terms of the time I had available.

Alex: 24:22

I don't mean to say it any other way apart from what it is, but yeah, thank you to people like yourself who've gone, now I'm going to, Be brave and put a call out and see what happens because now it's just an absolutely amazing organization. And it, so for those listening, if they haven't, if they're not aware actually, no, I'll pause there and I won't say anything. The next part is around asking yourself to introduce a bit more about your overview of your organization, your role, and its links to physical activity. So yeah, I'll shut up and allow you to do that.

Mel: 24:54

So I think I, so I wear quite a few hats in sport actually, but my I guess my main day job and has been for the past, past 10 years is, is working as the founding CEO of what was this mum runs that is now This Woman Runs. And my time over the last decade has been spent building What is now a global grassroots community that started from that one run that I've described from one street corner in Bristol to a digital community now of 250,000 women and a UK wide network. We're actually in so in 50 cities, but 80 locations around the country delivering thousands of free 30 minute runs for women every single week through an amazing army of volunteers. and and also building this new that we built a new community powered app that Our kind of somewhat lofty ambition is that it revolutionizes running for women, particularly women who are either completely new to running or have lapsed from regular activity for one reason or another. And honestly, Alex, it's Hopefully in terms of what I've shared so far, and you know, what I put in the locker and some of my own experiences, I feel I have to pinch myself sometimes. I get to do this work is absolutely my dream role. And I feel I just feel incredibly lucky to be able to lead, you know, an amazing and ambitious board and team and be part of a network of obviously the most incredible women who make up our volunteer team. And all of us that are involved in This Woman Runs have this incredible sense of purpose and vision around empowering women just to, all women actually, this why we've changed our names, so it's not just about women who have children, just to enjoy being more active and to do that more often and to make that part of their life forever. So, so yeah, That's kind of mostly what I do with my time. I'm also non executive board member at Sport England. I joined Sport England at the start of last year and then recently become a non executive director of the English Sports Development Trust, which is the team that manages the oversight for the This Girl Can campaign. So I'm really excited about those roles as well. And just being able to bring a voice of grassroots and community and women to the top tables and being able to bring that kind of lived experience and perspective to some of the conversations that we're having. in the wider sector as well. It's something I feel very proud of. So yeah, so That's what I do.

Alex: 27:29

So you've got a few, a few roles there. So obviously you're on the Sport England board and you're overseeing This Girl Can. So as people would have seen through my LinkedIn posts, and if you haven't seen it already, please head over to the LinkedIn and we've got the Working it Out group where I post the map on there. So I'm trying to map out the causes of inactivity speaking to our sector leaders. And the first question I ask is if you were going to map out these causes, where does your thought process start? Where would you go to?

Mel: 28:03

Yeah. I love this question because I'm like, I'm so like you, Alex, and I'm really interested in what makes people tick and how you, and then the second part of that, which is the, you know, the so what of the, okay, that's how they feel, but so what and how are we going to change things. And obviously in my day job, I spend, all day, every day, right at the coalface of grassroots sport and working with and thinking about how we can empower women who mostly are completely inactive when they, when they, when they join us to change how they feel about being active. Firstly and then give them a range of opportunities and ways to be active, but more importantly to stick at it. So that's really what I think about all day, every day. And I, yeah, so I'm interested in what makes makes people tick. And I'm also even more interested in what gets in the way of making those positive changes in their lives and the kind of experiencing some of the joy that I've obviously described in terms of what I get from being active. So my thought process, This is little bit rogue, but where my, where my thought process, when I really think about this, starts is the fundamental understanding that everything in science and in public health tells us that human beings and our bodies are designed to move. We are designed to move as, as living beings to be routinely physically active. So that's the first point. The second point is that's just not happening for many of us. So inactivity, it, as we know, it's almost like it's own global pandemic, isn't it? So, you know, just thinking about women, one in three women globally. moving so little. So forget about playing a sport. One in three women globally are moving so little that their long term health is at risk and it's potentially shortening, shortening their lives because of inactivity. So then I think if you, if we all take a bit of a moment just to reflect on how we spend our time and whether we could challenge ourselves to think about how often we've actually used our bodies to move just as a part of everyday life. And I don't mean. formal exercise like going to the gym or an organized game of tennis or football or whatever. I'm talking about those really informal everyday movements like a, you know, a brisk walk to go and meet a friend or getting on your bike to go and pick up something from the shops. And when we, when I ask that question of people, very, very frequently they'll struggle to think of any examples and they're really not alone. And the reality is for us, for many of us, that kind of informal, regular, everyday movement, that's more or less disappeared from, from our lives. So then there's the say what and the, and the why bit of that, a bit of that question, I guess, and I'm going to go even further back and a little more rogue now. But if you think about the days when we were cave men and women, and we were hunting and gathering for our, you know, to survive, to find our food, to find water. And that's been replaced in our modern life with online grocery orders. We don't even need to go to the supermarket. We literally go to the front door and physical work has mostly been replaced. By day sitting at our desks hunched over screens doing zoom calls team schools and that's even more so i'd say post covid so you know so many of us are not even commuting into the office now we're literally just sat sat at our kind of desk all day every day our homes are filled with activity saving devices we've got remote controls to turn over the tv we've got ring doorbells so we can See who's at the door before we even go to the door. My husband even even recently he replaced our light switches with an alexa command so we don't even have to get off the sofa to turn the lights on and off and that was a night for me I mean, I sort of get it because when you go to bed you want to turn all the lights off in one go But I I almost had to draw the line at that because it's It felt like, God, why don't we actually, we just literally go sit on the sofa and not move. It's and while all of that has been happening, we've tried to fill the void of regular movement and that kind of routine movement with organized sport, with PE at school, with team games, with going to the gym and the fitness industry on the surface of it seems to have, seems to have boomed. You know, there's so many gym chains and apps and things now aren't there, but despite all of the millions of pounds being spent on all of that, stuff inactivity, it's barely made a dent in inactivity. And I think one of the reasons for that is that for those that don't enjoy organized sport, that hate PE at school, that don't have a positive experience of it, that don't enjoy going to the gym, that don't identify as being sporty, that fear judgment when they do move, they just opt out completely and end up what are mostly sedentary lives. Obviously, it is more complicated than that. I know I'm massively oversimplifying it. But I think when I think about this problem, That's my thought process. And it's why The work that we do is so focused on stripping all of that away and just really thinking about moving more firstly and enjoying it and doing it in an enjoyable way not in a way that you're absolutely going to hate and dread doing and then wrapping around it this idea of connecting with others because that's like I described about my own experiences that's where the golden thread comes from in terms of making you feel like you can stick at it giving you the confidence making you feel like you belong and you're part of something. It's the thing that that can help you keep going and make that a regular part of your life.

Alex: 33:43

It's incredible, and it's very much aligned with the way Hayley's spoke about it and hers as well around. I always fell into the trap of belittling other activity and sport being the answer. That was my very previous way of thinking. And I'll be like, Oh, I'm just Just going for a run, just doing some, just doing some, some yoga or something like that. And she was like, whoa, why is that a just? Why are they just? Movement is important. Like, how do we fit movement into people's lives without them feeling like it isn't enough? What, we need people to have a change in behavior to feel like going out for that. That quick 10 minute run to the end of, to the shops and back is going to dramatically improve their life. So, yeah, that full process isn't too outlandish, as you say. I think that the parts I'm really interested in is around, you said around one in three women are shorting their lives due to inactivity. I think that's a really damning stat. And then we go into Having more time for our bodies to move time seems to be when we every time we ask for like the barriers for participation, so the two that come up because I personally feel they It's reframing that yes, some people generally don't have time But how do we incorporate movement into the things that they're currently doing? So people can quite flippantly say time, but, but yeah, how do we work with that? So for yourselves, is that something which you look into? So if we're going to say, right, we're looking at bodies that are designed to move, we have to incorporate activity into everyday life. It seems like your main, your main resolution is how do, how do you do that?

Mel: 35:38

Yeah We do that in a, well, we do that in a range of ways, but I'm just going to talk personally for a second because I actually wrote a LinkedIn post about this recently because one of the things that struck me recently are the number of conversations I've had with women, mostly with women who work in the sports sector, who know what I do. And one of the first things they'll say to me is, Yeah, I really would like to be more active, but I don't have time. And that's curious to me, because obviously these are women that are working in the sports sector that know the benefits, that understand the challenges, but, but, but time is still a real, is still a barrier to them. And time is a real barrier because you know, if you're juggling a lot of things, your work, your kids, your family and caring for, you know, elderly parents, etc, etc. We've all got really, really busy, busy lives, haven't we? And The post that I wrote was around reframing. the importance of your own well being. And it's that kind of old oxygen mask analogy, isn't it? Of if you don't look after yourself and your own well being, then everything else suffers, you know, your ability to be a good parent, to be productive at work, to be able to look after your parent, to be, you know, make time for your friends and all the other things you want to do. All of those things are impacted and improved if your cup is full. Of good stuff, you know, it's of being outdoors, of moving, of the joy that brings and the opportunity to get rid of the stresses of the day through movement. So the number one thing we do and everything we do across our communities is start with that premise of you matter, your well being is more important than anything else. So, let's start with that because if you believe that, then anything else is possible. the second thing is, and actually this something we do when we, when we first start coaching women. We've got a program called Run 30, which is for women that are brand, brand new to running. One of the first things we'll do before we even start running or walking is that we'll work with them to, take a look at their diary and find 15 minute blocks in their week that they can ring fence for themselves. And that those 15 minutes might be, I'm going to read a book for 15 minutes. I'm going to listen to the Alex's podcast. I'm going to go for a walk with my dog and I'm not going to take my phone. It just something that is not worth, it's not caring for someone else. That's not, that's only about you and your wellbeing. And what's really interesting is how hard people find that. Okay. it's, there's a kind of certain amount of guilt around saying, I need that time for me. And so if we don't deal with that and confront that, we're not honest about that, then everything else is hard. So we'll start in that, in that place. And part of that is often not just you committing to putting it in your diary, it's you talking to your employer and saying, I've put that time in my diary on a Wednesday afternoon and I'm going to go out for a walk full stop or saying to your partner on a Sunday morning, I've put half an hour in my in the family diary and I'm going to go and listen to a podcast and I, and I really don't want anyone to interrupt me for that half an hour. For so many women in particular, that feels really challenging. But if we don't, if we don't resolve that first and change your mindset around time and. looking after yourself first. Everything else is really, really hard. So that, so that's where we start. And then then after that, it's really about understanding that it's not about going back to what you were saying about the kind of not being enough and doing something that was not worth doing. That is only 15 minutes. It's not worth doing that. And it's only a walk. It's doing a lot of work around reframing that and, and focus it. We do that by focusing on. The number of minutes moving rather than how far or fast you go. So in the context of running, so all of our programs will focus on, okay, we're going to move for 30 minutes today, or we're going to move for 45 minutes, or we're going to move for 60 minutes. And firstly that takes the pressure off. And secondly, that makes all of our programs. completely inclusive because no matter where you are on your journey, no matter how fast you're able to go, we know that with confidence, we'll be able to get you to a place where you can move for 30 minutes and it will be equitable and everyone will be able to do it. Everyone will be able to do it. Even if we are volunteers and our coaches have to manage how that operates so that everyone gets what they want from it. Everyone will be able to do what we're asking of them. And that's really, really important.

Alex: 40:10

So I'm looking at mapping. There's a lot we've dug into quite a bit of detail around how a person, if we take your organization out of it, in a sense, and the concept, a person needs a lot of support for their wellbeing from, from societal structures.

Mel: 40:29

Yeah.

Alex: 40:29

Well we've got your amazing example of your organization, but Do you feel there's other organizations or other, say, for example, Sport England or, or local governments? Is there something that could be done more in those spaces so that a person is able to focus on their well being a bit more? Or is, obviously this multifaceted, but how do Is there any anyone in particular you see what I'm doing in terms of trying to narrow you down to how can we impact the masses? How do you think we could do that?

Mel: 41:01

I mean, I think that's why The Uniting the Movement strategy is so profound. It's, it's for me, it's, you know, it's the reason why I wanted to join the board. It's a strategy. I'm excited about and believe in and feel can really change things in terms of, in terms of tackling inequalities for, you know, for people who are inactive for all sorts of reasons. And that, and it won't surprise you to know that kind of uniting and creating a movement as someone who's a community builder is something that's gonna, gonna appeal to me. I think you know, working at a place level as well, and really, you know, Looking at how you can connect the dots in a place with the organizations that really understand what that local place needs, what the people in that community needs. is really important. But I think there is a step, there's still a step that needs to be taken, which is that kind of connection with public health and with education and with transport, that kind of whole system approach, because all of those parts of the system play a part in this in in the kind of firstly enabling a person to move more and to enjoy it. and to feel that that pressure is taken away to, you know, that often comes with more organized activity and organized sport. So I'm excited to be involved in the next stage of implementation at Sport England the next stage of Uniting the Movement, because I think there's very much going to be a focus on the, how do we really kind of take those connections that are happening across the country, across the sector and at a local level in place and extend those to wider cooperation and collaboration so that we can really start to have an impact in people's lives.

Alex: 42:44

Well, thank you for bringing the strategy. As people probably do know, I do work for Sport England, but I try not to really go, Oh, this Sport England. This the only thing we do. I try to go, try to very much lead the conversation and steer the conversation in the way that the guest is speaking, and I completely agree there are where we've said there's the COM-B model, and we've spoken lots today around capability side of it. How can This Woman Runs, support a woman to understand be aware and to develop so that she's confident that she is capable to do 30 minutes. It doesn't matter what that looks or feels like. So that, but then we've also got into quite a bit of detail from what Hayley spoke around is the socio ecological model around. There's a lot of individual things here and intrapersonal things here, which can influence a person and what the, like you've said, like what the strategy does is so there's not just one approach, one thing is how do we work collectively and, and what, yeah, and the aim for my map is to go, okay, so what does that mean for us like the sector leader. So I can see definitely your points around an individual's well being and how the behavior change tactics that would need to be put in place to work on that.

Mel: 43:59

Just to add to that, Alex, I think the other thing that I really am hopeful about for the future is is that we're, we're not the only organization that are working in the way that we are with building communities and engaging with women or with people you know, they want and need. There are so many amazing community organizations that are doing brilliant work. And I think one of the things, and they're doing it in quite innovative ways often. But what that means at the moment is that the community bit, my, what I term community is organizations that are operating on and offline and they're bringing people together in digital spaces and and in person. The market has become a little bit fragmented. And the reason for that is because it's quite, it's relatively new in terms of sports development. You know, we've been at it for 10 years, but there's lots of organizations in the space that are much newer. It's relatively new. And what I've seen happen is that communities have developed to meet very specific needs for specific communities of people, whether that's black women Southeast Asian women, men with mental health challenges, you know, et cetera, et cetera. There's, there's this incredible plethora of communities. I think one of the opportunities in this kind of next phase of Uniting the Movement, but also more widely is how we can create better connection between the organizations doing that work. So they shared learning and, you know, shared, we're sharing challenges and we're championing each other and just creating more collaboration and opportunities to. have more of an impact by working more closely together. So I think that's something that is a real opportunity going forwards.

Alex: 45:43

Completely agree and it's a part of the work which I'm most passionate about is how, and It's a real frustration of mine in terms of reason why I've wanted to work for Sport England as well is in terms of this, there's so much things going on out there. And, and my frustration going through my different roles is surely someone's done this before and failed at this in the nicest way possible. Surely someone knows what's worked and, and hasn't worked. And I'm, I feel like I'm starting an idea, which someone a lot more experienced than me has. done, failed at, and shared the experiences somewhere. Where can I learn? Where can I get this insight and information easily? I think that's the part which people do try and then they go, well, this, I just, I don't have the time to look as, as more detailed than an hour scrolling through it as well. So connecting those sorts of something that just, It's so important to me. So I'm glad that it's come up here. And it's a really important point around the digital space and how we, people are connecting offline, but when they, if someone wants to solve a problem and engage more people, it's very rarely, they wouldn't use some sort of digital means to do that wherever, even if it's like inviting someone online to a in person meeting, it's very rare that the digital aspect won't be used. So yeah, focusing on that in the next phase is just going to be so vital. We've covered a lot today, and I think it's an amazing place to leave it. Thank you very much for today, Mel. I hope that was an interesting conversation for yourself and yeah, I'll be releasing in the next few weeks.

Mel: 47:20

Thanks, Alex.