Alex: 0:37

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Working it Out podcast. I'm here today with Virginia Anderson, who is the CEO of Disability Snowsport UK. Welcome to the Working it Out podcast, Virginia.

Virginia: 0:50

Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be able to especially while the Paralympics are on talk about adaptive sport.

Alex: 0:55

I cannot wait to get into Paralympics Disability Sport. This is a first for me, on the series. So really, really excited to dig into that. So the first thing we do with everyone who's in our community, you're now in, you're now in, you don't have a choice on that one, unfortunately. We ask people to induct one item from their relationship with physical activity into our locker. I'm really interested to hear what your item, one item would be, please.

Virginia: 1:19

I find this a really difficult question and I was going to say my ski boots and then I was like they're only part that, the thing that carries, I carry with me everywhere, whether it's a yoga class, whether it's running, whether it's up a mountain, whatever else, is a red spotty cloth hanky. Like a proper fabric hanky. it sounds really silly, but they, if you're running in the rain, they don't fall to pieces. They, you can wipe things up, you can get mud off yourself, you can do whatever. If you're up a mountain and it's snowing and the wind is horizontal, you can still deal with your streaming eyes or your streaming nose or whatever it happens to be. It's and it's almost become like my kind of comfort blanket. Like I quite literally, the minute my trainers or my ski boots or anything else go on, I have a hanky in my right that's it. It's just always with me and they're indestructible. I have a collection of them. And so my vote goes to the cloth hanky. I would recommend them to anyone who lives in the UK and has to exercise outdoors in the rain.

Alex: 2:22

That's an incredible one. I've, But if I was guessing it's so snow sport items, I was thinking what could it potentially be? And you mentioned a few activities there already, like running yoga and going up mountains and snowing, which should form quite part of this conversation. But a hanky, I would not have predicted that. Wow. Where do I go with questions on hanky? Because normally I go, Oh, tell me more about how that becomes part of your relationship.

Virginia: 2:46

Is a really important thing because, I, for example, it's the small things that trip you up, isn't it? So if you're, if you signed up for, I don't know, I run 10ks, so if you signed up for something and you're a bit nervous about it, if you're chasing a particular time, I remember once being completely furious that I missed my target was in the Great Scottish Run by seconds, but I had stopped to time my laces at the end of the first kilometre because we'd just run up a hill, my trainers weren't quite right. And I stopped just, and it wiped out. It just, it wiped out that PB that I was chasing. And I was so annoyed with myself. So actually, hanky is a really practical thing because it's the thing that stops you dropping the weights in your hands. Because you can drive them. It's the thing that if you can't see where you're going because you're up a mountain and it's snowing and your nose is streaming and your eyes are streaming. You can sort yourself out without things flying everywhere, bits of tissue disintegrating everywhere. I broke my nose 20 years ago. So I do I have a stuffy nose. But it's the thing that also, if you're doing anything where you think your breathing's not quite right, your this, that, just removes that small, It removes that small niggle that becomes a big problem when you start to focus on it, if that makes sense.

Alex: 4:05

Yeah.

Virginia: 4:06

very, very easy to be like, oh, I can't do this because, or

Alex: 4:10

Yeah,

Virginia: 4:11

yeah, it's, it sounds daft, but it makes all the difference. And ideally you want to buy them, like in an, like a kind of proper old school kind of shop. My friend lives in her mum lives in a village in Dumfries and Galloway which has got like a proper kind of like outfitters where people can buy sensible things like proper socks and tea towels and hankies and every time she goes home I'm like, oh will you bring me hankies? They're my hanky supplier.

Alex: 4:42

that's amazing. I think for me, I'm I recently did the marathon and I got quite, it's not like superstitious. It's just more like routine. And I needed those certain items as well. Cause one time I ran 15 miles and, I chafed incredibly bad, and in the next run I did, I was like, no, I need this item. And then every run from them, I pretty much my long run on the weekend, I wore the same outfit and even on marathon day when it was hot, so I was like, no, I need these leggings, I need these shorts. I need this long sleeve top because that's what I'm just taking out those factors, like you say.

Virginia: 5:15

the small things a massive difference and it's whether you really need them or not But if you don't have them, you're it's very easy for your head to just to spiral and see for some people It'll be socks for somebody Be as you say leggings or a particular top or a particular For me, it's a hanky and anytime I run it's always in my right hand and I I feel on the treadmill at lunchtime today and I I didn't have it in my hand, it was sitting on the pocket in the thing in the treadmill. And I I felt really strange, it's like I don't know how to operate my arms without, Because it's also a reminder not to grip your hands too hard because it's quite easy if you're getting Tensed up about stuff as you start to grip and you have to have a loose grip and relax my hands and just it's enough to remind me just to you know, relax into what I'm doing taking that bit of worry away and it's fine. I know what I'm doing I've practiced I know what I need to do. I'm there for a reason And it's just, it's become my kind of security blanket.

Alex: 6:15

I think it's quite interesting. Before we pressed record, we were talking and you said. I'm no athlete at all. And I'm not here saying you are an athlete, but the routine and the items that you're talking, the way you're talking right now in terms of, I feel comfortable with it. I am, I've done this many times with it. I feel it helps with the process. A lot of people who are athletes say exactly the same things about a certain pair of, even just released one recently with Jo Pavey, she was talking about her compression socks, as how she needed the compression socks. They're also in my locker. If, and without those, she would get injury and she wouldn't be able to focus. And it was it, so you do have more in common with the athletes than you probably made out to.

Virginia: 6:57

It's, but it's an interesting thing because we're all human beings. The stuff that goes through our heads, there's common themes for all of us. Regardless of what our bodies can do, we are still human. And there's more that I think connects us than separates us, essentially.

Alex: 7:14

Exactly. And which perfectly leads us onto the second part around emotions and, The emotions that come to your mind when I say, or when someone says, let's do some physical activity. So when it does come to physical activity, what one emotion, what one feeling describes your relationship with it.

Virginia: 7:31

For me, there's a huge thing, particularly in the work we do at Disability Snowsport UK, that is about freedom and about joy and there's something really, really powerful about being at the top of a mountain, being at the top of a ski slope, of whether it's but also realising what your body can do, and conquering stuff you're maybe a bit nervous about. And that sense of Just being able to get outside and to do things. The freedom that skiing and snowboarding brings people is astonishing. And regardless of what kind of body they have or how their brain works, that freedom and that joy is still the same. And there's nervousness and there's trepidation and there's all of that other stuff that comes with it too. But the freedom of being outdoors and taking part and sharing that with other people is amazing. So can't separate freedom and joy, but we hear from our members and the people we ski with a lot that sense of freedom is really important to them. And I really relate to that as an individual. And that's something that we all share. And that we're free just to be ourselves. whoever we are and do what we can do, and that's massively important. And I think also, I think to take it off of kind of the personal for a moment, just what we do as an organization, I think one of the things that's really interesting is that So if you are a wheelchair user, for example, somebody else sets your speed limit, or how far you can travel. A power chair has a speed limit on it, it has a battery life, there's only so far you can go. Or somebody pushes you, not controlling the speed, somebody else is pushing you. Or, there's lots of limitations. in, in terms of kit and equipment. And so the absolute joy of actually, if you are using adapted equipment as a skier, is that sense of freedom and speed and finding out what you can do is astonishing. And that's no different for you or I using different skis than when we were a beginner, then you get a bit, make a bit more progress and what you can do and what you're able to feel and achieve. And that sense of freedom is still there and I think it's common for all of us. I think probably if you ask most people who ski or snowboard, what does it feel like to you? And freedom is a big one, I think.

Alex: 10:01

I can imagine, how, how do you get those people with disabilities who they must be feeling anxious beforehand? They must, or

Virginia: 10:11

I

Alex: 10:11

how do you, how's that journey for someone?

Virginia: 10:14

so the journey is different for all of us as individuals. I had to go back when I started this job. I went back to the dry ski slope where I learned as a child and started again. And that was worse at 40 something than it was at, when I was, 11 or whatever I started because it has this huge gap and actually the thing that we did at that point was I had a lesson on how to fall over and to get up. And once I'd done that, I was fine. we work, we do the same thing. We work people to understand the environment that they're in, to take safe risks, to understand. If they fall over, this is how we get up. Um, so that they're reassured that there's people there, that they're supported that actually, they can overcome their nervousness and that they can achieve things and build confidence, and it's a step by step process. And for me, it's just as important in terms of what we do as an organization, that we're giving people that confidence building and that faith in themselves and that sense of achievement is every bit as important as what part of a ski slope they can ski down from, or what kind of kit they're using, or how, whether they're racing or not, or whether they're just pottering about on a Sunday afternoon. doesn't matter. That bit around, as a human being, being able to do something you're proud of and to feel better for it, both physically and emotionally, is massive. So that's about support, it's about being honest with people about what we think they can do, pushing them a bit. I am, I have the very great privilege of joining, we run a holiday program every year. So I was in Andorra for a week earlier in the year, and one of our skiers, Great guy called Will, who has cerebral palsy. His goal for the week was to complete a blue run. Ski slopes go from green, blue, red, black. Black are the, I go, black are the really scary ones. I'm not there yet. And on day one he did that. And then suddenly it was like, Oh, what else can I do? we had a kind of reunion weekend a couple of weeks ago, and Will is now learning to ride horses. There's a whole load of other stuff that he's going on to do, and he's now going to a coaching group for his skiing. So that kind of, he's done so brilliantly, but that was all about confidence. That's all about being alongside someone to see what they can do, and making sure that they know they're safe.

Alex: 12:46

That's amazing. And to tie that back in with yourself, has there been a period whether it be a snow sport or. Activity because you mentioned being up mountains and running and walking and yoga. Where do you get your sense of freedom at the moment?

Virginia: 13:01

Some people will swim into the pool or do whatever. I like being outside. I like, I'm really lucky where I live. I live in Glasgow and it's really easy to get into the hills. It's really easy on a, Friday afternoon to go actually, the weather is decent. Let's go. And you're away for the weekend. So just being outdoors is something really powerful for me. About being outside, being in a different environment, being away from my desk, and away from, you, if you go to gym or whatever, there's a lot of music, there's a lot of people, and that's great, but sometimes you just need to, you just want to escape, you want to get a bit covered in mud, you want to be a kid, you want to be stomping around in mud or snow or whatever, and having fun, and doing that with no mobile phone signal, and no emails, and All of that kind of stuff. That's the thing that for me is amazing.

Alex: 13:52

So talking about being a kid, the next part is around like earliest memories. So is that, are these some of your earliest memories of being outside, out in the open?

Virginia: 14:02

Although I didn't take part in any competitive sport, we were active. We were out on our bikes all the time. And we're always out with the dog. We were always swimming. We were doing, we went to, we camped. We did all of that kind of stuff. But actually, I was thinking about this. One of the most powerful memories I have is around skiing in Scotland as a kid. school trips at a point in time where, everybody's kit basically came from C& A, you didn't have proper thermals, you'd be wearing tights under your ski boots and you had like kind of soggy sandwiches in your bag and you couldn't see anything of where you're going because it's Glensea in February and the wind is horizontal and you can't see a thing and you've just skied into a fence or, Into, I remember once taking out a whole bunch of my friends because I couldn't see where I was going. I just, they were waiting in the middle of a ski lesson and I just, yeah, tanked into the little, and just being frozen but having so much fun. But it's a very different, with the kit the kit we've got today is completely different. Skis that were really long are now really, to me still feel short. But yeah, it's those memories of just being cold, properly cold, but very happy and very steamy bus journeys on a Sunday into the mountains of Scotland.

Alex: 15:21

So you said like skiing in Scotland as a kid and you linked to doing it with your friends. Was that Was that the activities that you would do with your school as well? Is that how, because, but as a London city boy, that blows my mind first because our activities were, still sounds nice. There's a lovely park in London called Richmond Park and we do cross country around there. And a lot of my friends are really jealous of that, but the thought of you being able to get outside and ski with school sounds amazing.

Virginia: 15:49

ski my, so my family didn't ski. My parents didn't ski, so it was through school that I learned to ski. And then we got I think we got signed up for kind of summer activities and whatever, and local. ski club, um, where we teach now, is amazing, but it's, yeah, I think sometimes you need to be surrounded, but you need to be introduced by other people to stuff. It's not always a given that your parents or your siblings will do a certain thing. So for me, it was, yeah, it was about my friends and we were able to go and just have fun and hang out and escape. We were, it was brilliant. Wet, but brilliant.

Alex: 16:29

I think that's really interesting. Cause you said your family didn't ski. What was how were they in terms of influential to you in terms of being physically active, getting outside?

Virginia: 16:37

I think, so I was a musical kid, so I never played hockey on a Saturday morning or whatever, we spent endless hours standing by rugby pitches because my brother played a lot of rugby but we were always active, so there was a swimming pool round the corner from school on the way home, so we were there A lot of the time after school, just hanging out, and so swimming was a big thing for us as a family, so we're always active and we would be out on walks and whatever but not, it was never competitive sport because my interests at that point were different, but looking back now, I think I'm a little, I think I was probably a lot more active than I give myself credit for, if that makes sense.

Alex: 17:21

Oh, completely. That's why we're talking through this now. And you said, Oh, I'm not, haven't been in the, if you look at my history, I haven't been in this sport industry. I wouldn't call it, I'm not a sporty person. That's why the terminology is really interesting because we always talk around. That's why I say that physically active is a lot of the questions I ask because, and the people, I did one with Haley from GM Moving and she talks a lot about just movement. And I did it again, just, she keeps telling me off for using the word just movement because it's not just movement. It's, that's still okay.

Virginia: 17:51

we talk very much about helping people to be active, because I think sometimes the word sport can be intimidating. It can be, we know that particularly for disabled people, they don't always see themselves in that, in an environment, that is sporty but they want to move and actually really critically being active and movement is really important. We'll all have had discussions about, our core strengths and the importance of having a strong core. But actually, if you take that on another level, if you're somebody with a physical disability, that core strength becomes very important because it's not just about your ability to run further or faster or be a better football player or preventing back pain, for somebody with a physical disability, it might be about their ability to help them hold their head up,

Alex: 18:45

Yeah.

Virginia: 18:45

their overall posture. And we think of a posture as about sitting up straight, but actually, if you have a physical disability, say if you have quadriplegic cerebral palsy, that maybe affects all of your limbs, your ability to sit up straight affects your breathing. your ability to eat, your ability, reduces your kind of risk of test infections because you're swallowing is really important. So actually being active is about so much more than baseline kind of health and fitness. It's about staying well. And there's some awful statistics out there about, so I used to work in a cerebral palsy organization. So I will quote, I'll tell you a lot about CP because it's the thing I potentially know better than other stuff very few people with cerebral palsy are walking and working at 50, because there's something called secondary aging, so one part of your body is doing a whole load of work and the other bit maybe is not, then if you injure the good shoulder, suddenly your arms, you're much more limited in what you can do.

Alex: 19:46

Yeah.

Virginia: 19:46

being active, being well is about staying employed. It's about being an active friend, parent, family member, it's about being able to participate in life. So I'm really passionate about. The power of activity, movement, sport, in terms of what that does in terms of people's confidence about their ability to say my mum was a wheelchair user, adapted exercise classes after she stopped using crutches and started using a wheelchair. was life changing for her because suddenly she had a social life. Suddenly she was able to do things that she hadn't for a long time. She was able to transfer independently from her chair into her bed or whatever, which she hadn't been able to do. So the knock on effect of what we think of in broad terms as sport is huge. And it's not, and it goes beyond the kind of standard health and well being agenda. a lot of people, the importance of it. It goes way above and beyond what you and I would be worried about in terms of our physical health.

Alex: 20:57

That's really interesting context. We've spoken a bit about, quite a bit about your organization, actually, but only in little tokens, and you've said, we said about Disability Snowsport UK. But this next part is for those who, Haven't heard of your organization, haven't met yourself and a first time coming across what you do. Could you give everyone a bit of a overview of your organization, your role, it's linked to activity and what you're currently doing?

Virginia: 21:24

Our vision as an organization is about mountains and ski slopes that are free from barriers, because what we want is for disabled people to be able to take part alongside family, friends and their communities. We make snowsport accessible for everybody, whether it's regardless of disability, injury or experience. It means. We do all of that because we want disabled people to be more active. We want people to make friends, we want people to have fun by taking part in snowsport. And we also want to help the snowsport sector to include more disabled people. One thing we're always asked is like why skiing and snowboarding? What people sometimes struggle with So they think of disability sport, they think of wheelchair basketball or rugby, they think of boccia, think of some of the things that we, the kind of Paralympic sports that we see. Actually, anyone who's on skis or on a snowboard, is using kit that they don't use every day, what you would use and what I would use. would be different from each other, because it would be different heights, weights, experience. actually, so it's very inclusive because everybody is using kit that is specific to them. So the fact that you're, instead of using ski poles, you might be using riggers that are like crutches with little kind of mini skis on the end, instead of your ski poles. Nobody bats an eyelid because it's like everybody's got stuff that's different from somebody else and that's fine. But also as one of my trustees puts it, everyone is wobbly on skis. It doesn't matter how you could be an Olympic athlete. If you've never skied before, you're gonna have those moments. Everybody is on an unstable surface. We're in an environment that we're not in every day. And it's also something where people can, it's a sport people could take part in together. If you play. A team sport, a team wheelchair sport, for example, you need a whole load of other friends who are wheelchair users. Whereas a guy in a monoski can be skiing alongside somebody who's a snowboarder. It doesn't matter what you're using, we're all, you're not in a different environment, you're alongside everybody else. And I think for us that's critical because what our focus is as an organization is about enabling people to take part. So we've got ski schools across the UK and we teach disabled people to ski and snowboards. We run local groups. We run coaching and development groups. We run summer camps after school clubs, all sorts of things that is about just getting people active out there, getting out there, having fun. Making friends and just seeing what they can do. So that, that is amazing.

Alex: 24:08

I saw on your social media that you're currently fundraising and I was quite interested in finding out what you're fundraising for to give it a plug. Why not? And also to figure out that's obviously the project you're working on at the moment. So I'd be really interested to hear about that.

Virginia: 24:24

this, so actually what I'd like to do slightly is set the context of that because what we do as an organization, we make sure our activities are priced the same or less than it would be for a non disabled person to turn up at a ski lesson. The difficulty is is that the real costs of that are probably somewhere between a third sometimes double depending on the circumstances for that, to make that happen. So we believe in equality of access. So we have to fundraise to make up that shortfall that that pays for specialist instructors, pays for specialist equipment. And critically, there are people who will learn to ski independently, there are some people who will never ski independently because if they have a visual impairment, they might need a guide. If they're using a bi ski, which is a sitting down ski with two skis underneath it, they may also always need a guide with them to help steer that sit ski or to keep them safe if anything happens. So there is always going to be a cost to that is potentially greater than it is for the average person. And we want to remove barriers. That's our goal as an organization. In order to do that, we need to raise money. The big challenge for us is where that comes from. We don't get any government funding. We do everything through fundraising. So we've got a campaign running at the moment, alongside the Olympics and the Paralympics as a kind of timeframe. Uh, called 10k for 10k. We've got a whole lot of people who are out there raising money based on a kind of 10, 000 steps, 10, 000 kilometers, 10, 000 whatever it is. So there is, there's a ski journalist who is who has been mowing his lawn. He's committed to doing 10k of mowing his lawn in the Highlands, which is not a lawn as the south of England might imagine

Alex: 26:20

I was thinking

Virginia: 26:21

lot more scrubby and he's been, we've got some brilliant pictures of him in his ski gear. We've got families who've signed up to kind of ski 10k. I'm doing a Great Scottish Run in a few weeks time and a part of that is also about just getting people out there and having fun as well. Our chair has just swum 10k in Italy this week. So everybody's doing their bit. So we do need to go out there and raise money. And if people want to support us, go have a look at our website. Every penny counts. Because, just 10 would pay for a lift pass for a child to have their first lesson. And we know that lesson can be life changing. If somebody finds a thing that they love, They'll keep doing it, and it doesn't take much to get somebody started, that£10 could literally be life changing for a child who's signed up for their first lesson. It might be that what it helps do is pay for a specialist instructor to support somebody, to enable them to keep going. Yeah. So if anyone fancies signing up for 10k of lawn mowing, roller skating, bungee jumping, whatever it is, eh, that you could do 10, 000 reps, 10, 000 steps, 10, 000 kilometers, whatever, or 10 kilometers rather. Go for it. And if you want to support Team DSUK, have a look at our website. There's a donate button right there and you can find out about more about what we're up to.

Alex: 27:51

What i'll do is the day I release this pod i'm going to advertise it by running a 10k I've commit i'll commit on record on recording

Virginia: 27:59

I

Alex: 28:01

my 10k and i've published the podcast. That's what i'll do. And then i'll post it i'll post it on socials as well. So we've covered your organization and your personal relationship with fiscal activity. And what we'll do now is start to dig into what you believe are the causes of inactivity, I know you're UK and based in Scotland. So I've been really digging into England quite a bit, but we can talk broader UK wise. And with that, then we'll try to narrow you down. So if to start, if you were going to map out the causes of inactivity and you would set this task, where does your Where did your thought process start?

Virginia: 28:43

so I'm coming at this from a very specific perspective, and it is about the disabled community and, the Activity Alliance, if people are interested in disability and sport, the Activity Alliance produce, they do a research project every year, which is absolutely amazing in terms of the stuff that they produce and statistics. But we know that around 80 percent of disabled people say that their condition or their impairment stops them being active. sometimes they're quite often just not aware of the suitable activities that are out there. And they also worry, you asked this question earlier, about safety and risk. But around six and ten disabled people feel that they can't be as active as they would like to be. And it's why things like seeing, and I love the way the Paralympics are being reported this year, because they've started talking about classifications and stopped talking about inspiration quite so much. Because actually disabled people being in our swimming pools, our racetracks, our mountains, should be utterly normal and it's not. And it's not as

Alex: 29:43

Yeah.

Virginia: 29:44

People are able to see that opportunities are available to them. And that, and to remove some of the fear from that. And I, I get that thing about being nervous and looking into a world of sport and thinking that's not for me. Because as a kid who didn't, wasn't a sporty kid, because I was tall, I was always just stuck in goals. And you basically spent half an hour in the rain, feeling miserable and then went home again that lots of people have a poor experience of sport. And then you have to multiply that for somebody who has a physical impairment or a learning disability, whatever it happens to be. But it shouldn't It should be normal, and they should, people who are disabled or have had a life changing diagnosis or injury should be at every part of our kind of world of sport, movement, activity. And so it's important that we let people know that opportunities exist, that it's safe, it's affordable, and it's for people like them. And it is fun that you don't have to be an inspiring Paralympian to be a runner. You can just be a runner and that's fine. So it's how we communicate about sport and activity is really important and how we publish opportunities, how we encourage, but I also think clubs and facilities can quite often be nervous about welcoming people in. And actually my challenge to all of those clubs and facilities would be to say yes, and then approach people like others. Or the Activity Alliance, or the discipline specific adaptive sport provider who can give you advice and help you. make it successful for someone. Um, that's my challenge to the world of sport is say yes, and then we'll figure out how to do it. Rather than saying, Oh, don't put it back on the disabled person. Think about how you can remove the barrier.

Alex: 31:42

So we've got around 80 percent of disabled people say disability, they believe their disability affects their ability to be active. We've said around the whole part around removing fear for the person with a disability. And and that it should feel normal to be active. And then you started to go into, okay, what that means, how are we gonna, how are we gonna do that? So there's a few different levels from awareness of opportunity. So the role of yourselves at Disability Support UK, you believe that there's a role there. You believe that there's a role for clubs to play as well,

Virginia: 32:15

Absolutely.

Alex: 32:16

in terms of clubs

Virginia: 32:17

think

Alex: 32:19

whether brave is the right word, and saying yes, and then coming to you. Then, So where would you say, because we're talking about maybe a, we spoke about top down things here, but then also bottom up in terms of this grassroots action and also from a governing body action, if you classify yourself as that, would you, how do you balance that? Which, where would you say The important, the responsibility lies.

Virginia: 32:51

that's a really difficult question. I think there are systemic things that can change and I think it's getting better at that level, but we're not there yet, because I think there's, I think and particularly with funders, quite often what happens is they say, oh, that cost per head is really high, we're going to give the grant to somebody else who can see a hundred people instead of ten people, rather than assessing what somebody with more complex needs actually needs to succeed. And not everybody is going to sustain activity independently. Not everybody is going to progress. The, actually the progression is in their confidence. Their progression is in the fact that they're out and seeing friends once a week in an environment that keeps them active. It doesn't have to be progression in a sporting sense. And that confidence and that mental health piece is critical. So there is a, I have a challenge to the funders. that says that, and actually some disabled people are just more expensive. That's, that is the stark reality. On the kind of club and venue side of things, it is about just be brave, say yes, come and get help, The lessons you will learn about being what good looks amazing. I think if you can get it right for somebody with a disability, that's good for everyone. So if it challenges you to think about your safeguarding process, or if it challenges you to think about how accessible your building is, that applies to the mum with the pram or the person who is wrangling, How do they get their school classroom A to B safely and whatever else? There's lots and lots of ways that actually thinking through what being accessible and welcoming means for your club or venue actually is good for a much wider group of people.

Alex: 34:46

What do you feel like you could do more of so that a person doesn't have that fear?

Virginia: 34:52

I think a lot of that is about information. Some of it is about, and so a lot of that is about potentially also working in partnerships. So allied health professionals like physios or occupational therapists or through kind of education. making sure that all of those people are aware of the opportunities that exist and the benefit of them as well. So we need to get better at providing information. We need to get better at dispelling some of the myths around things. actually, what's a really important part of our process is the conversation that happens before somebody even puts a pair of ski boots on or snowboard boots on, is that we have a conversation about what they need, how they're feeling, what their body does, what they're worried about, what they're excited about, what they'd like to achieve. And then we think about, because quite often people come and say I'll definitely be a sit skier. Maybe not. Hang on a minute here. Let's see what you can do and we work, we take the time to listen and that is a critical thing is about listening to people so that remove those bits one by one. There are also a tremendous number of disabled people in the UK. 6. 9 million disabled people of working age, so 19 percent of the working age population in the UK. It's classified as disabled. Now, not all of those people will call themselves disabled because they might classified in terms of statistics or whatever because of a cancer diagnosis or something like that. there are, there's 770, 000 disabled children under the age of 16. That's one child in 20. Just for actually, if you're a commercial business, it makes total sense to be disabled. Not to ignore that population that population of those kids have friends. They have brothers and sisters. They have parents. They all want to go out into the world and do things. So actually, by excluding the disabled child, you're excluding a whole family. So it's not just about funders. It's about businesses saying, hang on a minute. There's a whole lot of people out there. We are, that we're missing a trick with one in 20, it's 5 percent of your, of that population under 16, the spending power there is huge. critically also disabled people will be very quick to walk away from things that don't work or if you make it difficult for them because they've done enough fighting a lot of the time. So if your website doesn't work or if you need to make a phone call instead of being able to book online. Why should you have to? They just, if it's too difficult, they won't bother. it makes great business sense if you're a travel provider, if you're a venue, if you're a commercial outfit of any kind, or a club trying to make sure that you can balance the bills at the end of the year. Welcome everybody in because it's good for business.

Alex: 37:48

I completely agree with that. I think we've, we'll finish there for today. That was really interesting. Thank you so much. I think there's a lot to take away, a lot for me to think about and a lot to add in terms of a, from a disabled person's point of view. I just wanted to give this an opportunity in terms of, if you feel from creating a map to engaging with people with disabilities, if there was something which you feel we didn't cover today, which you feel should be on the map or we should cover yeah, please do now.

Virginia: 38:14

Oh I don't know if there's anything else that springs to mind. But I do, I worry about I worry about disabled young people because they disconnect after school or college or whatever. and getting them back. That's the population if the, that's the group of people that if I could fix it for them and that's the, that would be the dream. Because fix it then and you will sustain activity for the long term. And also life is just better with more friends, more fun, more stuff to do.